Biblical Hebrew Forum

[<david.kimbrough AT charter.net>]

Dave,

Well it is of course necessary to take things said with a 
bit of salt.  A good example is the Battle of Kadesh 
wherein Ramesses II claimed a great victory when in fact he 
pulled a draw from the jaws fo defeat.  Likewise, the 
Merneptah (1210 BC) Stele claims to have exterminated 
Israel, which obviously did not occur.  However many 
archeological artifacts in Canaan are obviously Egyptian. 
While the details are perhaps, well foggy, but the broad 
point is clear.  Egypt was a serious military force in the 
Levant in the centuries following the expulsion of the 
Hyksos.



> From: Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
> Date: 2004/05/27 Thu AM 02:02:23 GMT
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Exodus & Hyksos
> 
> Umm, if we know for a fact that the Egyptians monkeyed 
with history in their 
> own favor like this, why do we just passively accept 
whatever their monuments 
> say to the exclusion of everything else?  It sounds to me 
as though they're 
> not too reliable as sources for such things.
> 
> On Wednesday 26 May 2004 14:14, 
david.kimbrough AT charter.net wrote:
> > Harold,
> >
> > Dr. Merrill is of course correct that no one likes to 
admit defeat, and the
> > ancient Egyptians were no different (there are plenty 
of Americans who
> > think the US won the war of 1812).  He is also correct 
that different kings
> > of Egypt exerted different amounts of effort to 
maintain Egyptian control
> > of Canaan.  Nonetheless, Egypt did control Canaan more 
or less from the
> > expulsion of the Hyksos to some time just before the 
reign of King David. 
> > The Armana Letters, the Merneptah Stele, and other 
evidence all point this
> > out.  Judges and Joshua do not even mention any 
Egyptians in Canaan
> > although their presence there is well documented both 
in Egypt and Canaan
> > for just about any realistic period for the conquest. 
There is simply no
> > way a group could flee Egypt and then conquer Canaan 
forty years later and
> > be consistent with the evidence.
> >
> > > From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
> > > Date: 2004/05/26 Wed AM 11:36:14 GMT
> > > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Exodus & Hyksos
> > >
> > > Dear David,
> > >
> > > >A key element overlooked in trying to tie biblical
> > > >chronology to the archeological record is that fact 
that
> > > >after the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt, the 
Hyksos
> > > >fled across the Sinai to Canaan, to a fortified city
> > > >Sharuhen (Tell Ajjul, not far from Gaza).  Ahmose 
pursued
> > > >the Hyksos across the Sinai and destroyed their 
fortress.
> > > >He then conquered all of Canaan and large parts of 
what is
> > > >now Lebanon and Syria.  Egypt control this region 
lasted
> > > >for hundreds of years after. The Merneptah Stele 
(1210 BC)
> > > >mentions that Egyptian forces under the command of
> > > >Merneptah in Canaan defeated ?Israel?.  Specifically 
it
> > > >states "Israel is laid waste, its seed is not." 
(Ashkelon
> > > >and Gezer are also mentioned). The determinative is 
for a
> > > >people, rather than a state.  As late as 1210 Egypt 
held
> > > >sway over Canaan.
> > > >
> > > >The point here is for hundreds of years after the 
expulsion
> > > >of the Hyksos, there is no way for the Israelites to 
flee
> > > >Egypt, wander about for 40 years, and then enter 
Canaan.
> > > >Canaan was under Egyptian rule.
> > >
> > > HH: Dr. Eugene H. Merrill, in his book Kingdom of 
Priests, dates the
> > > Exodus to 1440 B.C. and says this:
> > >
> > > It might seem strange that Egyptian history knows 
nothing of the
> > > exodus and conquest, but given the Egyptian penchant 
for recording
> > > only victories and not defeats, one should not be 
surprised at the
> > > omission. Amenhotep II (1450-1425), the pharaoh of 
the exodus, had
> > > either little interest or little stomach for 
Palestinian conquest
> > > following his fifth year. the year of the exodus. His 
son Thutmose IV
> > > (1425-1417) apparently undertook only one northern 
campaign-to Aram
> > > Naharaim. This would have occurred while Israel was 
in the Sinai
> > > wilderness and so would have had no effect on the 
conquest. Amenhotep
> > > III (1417-1379) was ruling during Israel's invasion 
and occupation of
> > > Canaan, but his attention was directed not towards 
defending his
> > > interests in Canaan, but toward hunting and the arts. 
Whatever
> > > military activities he did undertake were against 
Nubia in the south.
> > > This obviously was providential for Israel, for, as 
has been seen,
> > > the Mitannians, Hittites, and (later) the Assyrians 
were for the most
> > > part at loggerheads, unable to fill the vacuum that 
Egypt's
> > > disinterest in Canaan had produced. Only the 
Canaanites, themselves
> > > totally disorganized, stood in the way.
> > >
> > >                           Yours,
> > >                           Harold Holmyard
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > b-hebrew mailing list
> > > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> > David Kimbrough
> > San Gabriel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> 
> -- 
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> Learning about Christianity from a non-Christian
> is like getting a kiss over the telephone.
> 
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David Kimbrough
San Gabriel