Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

Dora Smith <villandra AT austin.rr.com> wrote:
 inter alia
....Waht I'm trying to do is to learn the history of the Yahweh cult....

You may want to consult: The Rise of Yahwism by Johannes C. De Moor , Leuven 
1997 (2nd edition).

An important contribution to the subeject.

Uri 



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>From kwrandolph AT email.com  Sun Feb  1 09:39:56 2004
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From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
To: "Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:39:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Aegean Ethnic determinatives onPhilistineguardsofJ
        udean kings in Kings and Samuel?
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Dora:

Practically all the we know about David comes from one source document. As I 
pointed out in a previous missive, that document clearly points out that 
David’s 600 men were brought by him to Ziklag, not chosen while in Ziklag. 
Unless Halpern has newly discovered documentation, that makes his statements 
contradicting that one source document pure speculation based on his personal 
presuppositions.

As for the Philistine religion, they were not followers of YHWH, rather they 
had other gods like Dagon. The events surrounding the Philistine capture of 
the ark of YHWH and the destruction of Shiloh led both Israelis and 
Philistines to fear it. While Saul was king, the memory of those events was 
still fresh, so it was unlikely that he would touch it.

The only indication that Saul turned to worshiping Baal is that his one son, 
usually called )Y$ B$T, was twice listed in 1 Chronicles as )$B(L. All other 
indications are that he, at least outwardly, worshipped YHWH.

As for Israelis’ religious syncretism, that was a constant theme from Judges 
through the end of 2 Kings. It was also repeated condemned. The two golden 
calves made after Israel rebelled from the Davidic kingdom, however, were 
Egyptian, not Canaanite, in origin.

As for our source document, from its language and content, it appears post 
exilic, but that the author(s) (possibly Ezra?) consulted, concatenated and 
condensed at that time still extant original documents.

Yours, Karl W. Randolph.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dora Smith" <villandra AT austin.rr.com>

> I've been doing reading in the library.  Halpern's book, Dothan's on the
> Philistines, and other books on the Philistines.
> 
> One thing:  David wasn't an Edomite.   He had some sort of connections to
> Moab, where he parked his parents, and to whom he turned for aid nearly as
> often as he did to Gath and to the Gibeonites.  He hated Edomites.  He
> viciously fought them, and the Amelekites.    I think this would have
> something to do with competing tribes in the Negev.   I'm not sure where the
> Midianites stood in it.
> 
> The members of David's personal guard of 600 were all picked while he was in
> Gath and in Ziklag; makes sense to think they came from there.
> 
> Overlap between these territories and Judea is part of my point.  To call
> them Philistine identifies them as a different group then Saul's, and sheds
> light on what was going on with the ark and Yahweh.   To call them
> Philistine at this point is a red herring.   Their religion was what they
> had assimilated from the people around them - so they were apparently
> Yahwists.   In opposition to Saul's people, who appear to ahve worshipped
> Ba'al, or else ahd a more syncretistic religion that included Ba'al.
> Ishbaal wore Ba'al's name, and he was Saul's son.  When Israel declared
> independence from David's kingdom, they quickly went to Canaanite
> iconography.
> 
> Yours,
> Dora Smith
> Austin, Texas
> villandra AT austin.rr.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dora Smith" <villandra AT austin.rr.com>
> To: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>; "Hebrew"
> 
> 
> >.     Halpern argues that David actually
> > conquered Israel as an outsider, Philistine or even Edomite, and imposed
> the
> > religious system of his own roots and his allies on the people of Israel.
> > He argues that the slaughter at Shiloh was partly about a religious
> conflict
> > between the Gibeonites and the Benjamites or Saul's tribe.  He argues that
> > Israelite religion was traditionally Canaanite, adn this is why when
> Israel
> > broke away from Davidic control after
> > teh reign of Solomon, it installed golden calf iconography.   Halpern
> thinks
> > that if the ark of the covenant had been integral to Israelite cult, Saul
> > would ahve actively sought it and David would have brought it out much
> > sooner, instead of leaving it at the houses of Gibeonite and Philistine
> > priests.
> >
> 

-- 
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