Biblical Hebrew Forum

["B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>]

Hi again, Vince,

You wrote:

> > Hi Vince, you wrote:
> > >
> > > but let me ask you: do you think it is possible to argue hebrew "hayu
> > > kotevim" is a "verb form"? and in what way would it be different from
> > > english "were writing" ...?
> >
> > My first reservation would be in thinking of HYH as a be-verb.  I don't
> > think it is.  I think it means "become,happen" so that hayu kotevim
means
> > they had become writers.  I think hayah lo means specifically that it
*had
> > become* his rather than it *was* his.  hu' lo would be it was (is) his.
I
> > think HYH is closer to Gr ginomai than eimi.
>
> would you not grant the generally progressive reading, then, of such
> constructions...?

I suppose.  On the one hand, vayehi hebel ro`eh tso'n has little to do with
whether Abel is actually doing shepherding during the story time.  It is
only saying that he came into that occupation.  But shlomo hayah moshel
seems more like backgrounded activity.  The difference between them seems
like the degree to which the participle has become a noun (substantive). The
question is what is the difference between shlomo moshel and shlomo hayah
moshel.  The former describes activity in progress.  The latter is
describing the state (of activity) that had obtained by story time.

Do tell:  where are you headed with this?

>
> > Do you need a copulative verb form for your model?
>
> did you see my piece in "The Verbless Clause in Biblical Hebrew"? i'm not
> even sure i'd call it a copula...  "dummy-do" in english transformational
> grammar is closer to the mark: so by analogy, "dummy-HYH" ...?

I have read the article.  It seems to me like you are equating the verbless
clause and the clause with HYH as a copulative.  I didn't catch the
technical classification "dummy-do" in the article.  I'll have to do a more
careful re-read.  ;-)

>
> > > btw, are coming up for the SBL ...?
> > I am scheduled to preach Sun.
>
> i'm sorry, am i missing a joke? are you preaching at the SBL...?  might do
> some of them good ... ;-)

The joke is on me.  I knew as soon as I pressed the send button that it
would sound like I would be preaching at the convention center.  (Might do
you some good, Vince!  ;-)   )  Actually, I will be preaching here in
Syracuse.

B.

> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-
> Dr Vincent DeCaen
> Research Associate
> Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations
> University of Toronto
>
> Hebrew Syntax Encoding Initiative (HSEI)
> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~decaen/hsei/


B. M. Rocine
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13206

ph: 315.437.6744
fx: 315.437.6766