Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Lael Caesar <caesarl AT andrews.edu>]

Re qtl vs ktb etc.:
Qtl has no begadkephat letter, as does katab. Beginning students need no 
further
distraction while they are learning the basic paradigm

Lael Caesar
Andrews University
==================================================
Biblical Hebrew digest wrote:

> B-HEBREW Digest for Friday, December 14, 2001.
>
> 1. RE: Genesis 1:6
> 2. Exodus Fusion/Conflation of EBII-IAII ?
> 3. Re: Ending on a vowel?
> 4. SPECIAL NOTICE: Werkgroep Informatica Launches Pilot Web Project
> 5. SV: Ending on a vowel?
> 6. RE: Ending on a vowel?
> 7. Exodus and Archeology
> 8. Re: Exodus and Archeology
> 9. Fw: exodus corrected site
> 10. qatal vs. katab
> 11. Re: qatal vs. katab
> 12. Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> 13. Re: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> 14. RE: qatal vs. katab
> 15. RE: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> 16. Shabbat Shalom and Chag Sameach
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Genesis 1:6
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:40:14 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 1
>
> I asked my daughter, in 11th grade Yeshiva high school - "What is the
> root of 'Mavdil', 'Hivdil', etc.?  Is it B D L?  She also didn't
> remember but thought it was not B D L.  I asked her why not, and she
> said, "It just doesn't sound right".  I am really going to look for
> that book in my deceased father's library, this Sunday.
>
> Shoshanna
>
> That may have something to do with it (allowing the corrections to the 
> picture
> that she gave in her response), but the reason I brought up the lack of a G
> (Qal) stem for this root is that it seems to me that a speaker who has
> internalized the language will probably be a lot better at recognizing
> connections between verb forms that actually exist. Even though she has
> learned the root/stem system, there is no reason to learn a verb form that
> does not exist; hence, the relationship is not nearly as obvious. It may 
> seem
> like a no-brainer that the root of mavdil is BDL, since none of the 
> consonants
> is likely to go anywhere; but If I recall correctly, even the comparative
> evidence is usually attested in the C stem only.
>
> I should add that the original inquiry seemed to imply that BDL means
> something by itself. (Something like, "What's the difference between BDL and
> MBDL?") Since there is no attested G-stem verb badal or D-stem biddel, there
> is no verb that can be called simply BDL. (Both the N stem and the C stem 
> add
> prefixes in their various forms.)
>
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Exodus Fusion/Conflation of EBII-IAII ?
> From: "Walter Mattfeld" <mattfeld AT mail.pjsnet.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:58:45 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 2
>
> In an earlier posting to this List I noted that "my research" on the Exodus
> narratives suggested to me that elements or strands within the biblical
> scenarios appeared to be drawn from various archaeological eras, the Early
> Bronze II to Iron II.  A recent "re-read" of Finkelstein and Silberman,
> suggests that they too "appear" to share my observation-
>
> "So where does this leave us ? Can we say that the Exodus, the wandering,
> and -most important of all- the giving of the Law on Sinai do not possess
> even a kernel of truth ? So many historical and geographical elements from
> SO MANY PERIODS MAY HAVE BEEN EMBEDDED IN THE EXODUS STORY that it is hard
> to decide on a single unique period in which something like it might have
> occurred. There is the timeless rhythm of migrations to Egypt in antquity.
> There is the specific incident of the Hyksos domination of the delta in the
> Middle Bronze Age.  There are the suggestive parallels to elements of the
> Ramesside era relating to Egypt -together with the first mention of Israel
> (in Canaan, not Egypt)...The Bible may reflect New Kingdom reality, but it
> just might as well reflect later conditions in the Iron Age, closer to when
> the Exodus narrative was put in writing.
> And that is precisely what the Egyptologist Donald Redford has suggested.
> The most evocative and consistent geographical details of the Exodus story
> come from the seventh century BCE..." (p.65, "Did the Exodus Happen ?"
> Israel Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman.
> The Bible Unearthed, Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the
> Origin of its Sacred Texts. New York. The Free Press. 2001.  ISBN
> 0-684-86912-8)
>
> ****Copy of an earlier Posting ****
>
> I have argued that Ahmose I, founder of the New Kingdom and the 18th dynasty
> is the Pharaoh of the Exodus, based upon the biblical chronology preserved
> in Judges and Samuel of nearly 600 years elapsing from the Exodus to
> Solomon's building of the Temple in his 4th year (ca. 966 BCE + 600 = 1566
> BCE, in the reign of Ahmose I). Ahmose's expulsion of the Hyksos is what is
> being remembered.
>
> But, I also acknowledge that the Exodus narratives possess various strands
> from differing periods of time, Early Bronze II to Iron II, and thus it is
> my understanding that Aardsma has correctly identified the fallen walls of
> Early Bronze Jericho as one of the strands. Kitchen and Hoffmeier have
> correctly identified the mention of Ramesses in the narratives as another
> strand of the days of Ramesses II or later. MacDonald has correctly
> identified the sitz im leben of the narratives as the Late Iron II period
> based on his excavations in Transjordan. Bimson and Wood have correctly
> identified the fall of Jericho in MBIIC as best fitting the burning of
> Jericho by Joshua.  ALL OF  THESE  SCHOLARS HAVE EACH CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED
> THE VARIOUS STRANDS.  Their collective failure however, was that they failed
> to realize that these strands, found in various archaeological eras, Early
> Bronze to Late Iron II, are indicative of a fusion and conflation of events
> over a period 1500 years, being compressed into the 16th/15th century BCE.
> Cf. my article at the following url
> http://www.bibleorigins.net/ExodusTimnaSerabitelKhadim.html
>
> Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
> Walldorf by Heidelberg
> Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany
> www.bibleorigins.net
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Ending on a vowel?
> From: "Jonathan D. Safren" <yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il>
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:27:41 +0200
> X-Message-Number: 3
>
> Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this
> day and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more
> suitable for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible?
> What was good for Gesenius is not necessarily good for us.
> Sincerely,
> Jonathan D. Safren
> Dept. of Biblical Studies
> Beit Berl College
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Søren Holst" <sh AT teol.ku.dk>
> To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
>
> > How abot a perfectly ordinary 2nd person masc. sing. perfect verb like
> > qatalta?
> >
> > Soren, Cph
> >
> > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > Fra: Peter Kirk [SMTP:Peter_Kirk AT sil.org]
> > > Sendt: 12. december 2001 19:18
> > > Til: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Emne: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> > >
> > > Yes. But the only permitted word final vowel point (apart from a silent
> > > shewa in a kaph or on a final consonant cluster) is qamets, and then
> only
> > > following kaph and nun.
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: SPECIAL NOTICE: Werkgroep Informatica Launches Pilot Web Project
> From: "M & E Anstey" <anstey AT raketnet.nl>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:23:10 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 4
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> The Werkgroep Informatica of the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam is pleased to
> announce the launch of its pilot web project, The Interactive Hebrew Text
> Project, at
>
>                          http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/index.htm
>
> (You can also find it under the Theology Webpage (http://www.th.vu.nl/)
> under
> Onderzoek, Werkgroep Informatica.)
>
> This is a pilot project and so only 5 chapters of the Old Testament are
> presented (the book of Jonah and Duet. 4), and only comments in Dutch are
> available for Deuteronony 4.
>
> Due to the complexities of displaying interactive Hebrew on the web, the
> site
> will only work under Windows 95 (98 or above is better) with the browser
> Internet Explorer 4 (5 or above is better). It will not work under Netscape
> or
> other operating systems. The site provides a test to see how your system
> matches our minimum requirements at
> http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/html/test.htm.
>
> ******  The pilot project has been possible due to the generous funding of
> the
> Vrije Universiteit. If you think the overall idea and purpose of the site is
> worth supporting, please fill in the response form
> (http://www.th.vu.nl/~wiweb/html/feedback.htm) once you have viewed the
> site,
> as your responses will be important in the event of future funding proposals
> to expand the site to include many more chapters of the Hebrew bible and
> greater cross-platform, cross-browser support. IF YOU HOLD AN ACADEMIC
> POSITION OR A POSITION WITHIN THE COMPUTING INDUSTRY WE WOULD GREATLY
> APPRECIATE A FORMAL LETTER OF SUPPORT FOR THE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF THIS
> SITE
> *******
>
> You can mail us at:
>
> Werkgroep Informatica
> Faculteit der Godgeleerdheid
> Vrije Universiteit
> De Boelelaan 1105
> 1081 HV  AMSTERDAM
> The Netherlands
>
> You can also directly email the webmaster at wiweb AT th.vu.nl
>
> We hope the site will be of particular interest to Hebraists, translators,
> and students of Hebrew and Hebrew discourse.
>
> With regards
>
> Matthew P. Anstey, B.Th., M.C.S.
> Webmaster, Werkgroep Informatica Interactive Hebrew Text Project
> Werkgroep Informatica
> Ph.D. candidate
> Faculteit der Godgeleerdheid
> anstey AT postmark.net
>
> 13 December 2001
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Holst?= <sh AT teol.ku.dk>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:53:09 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 5
>
> well, I'm all in favour of katab, since it's what the Danish standard
> Biblical Hebrew grammar uses anyway - I was  just trying to adapt to the
> standard :-)
>
> merry holy days, everybody
> Soren, Cph
>
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra:  Jonathan D. Safren [SMTP:yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il]
> > Sendt:        13. december 2001 11:28
> > Til:  S?ren Holst; Biblical Hebrew
> > Emne: Re: Ending on a vowel?
> >
> > Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this
> > day and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more
> > suitable for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible?
> > What was good for Gesenius is not necessarily good for us.
> > Sincerely,
> > Jonathan D. Safren
> > Dept. of Biblical Studies
> > Beit Berl College
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> From: "Trevor & Julie Peterson" <06peterson AT cua.edu>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:30:42 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 6
>
> I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to change the paradigmatic root in actual
> paradigms, but the real problem would be where words like yiqtol, wayyiqtol,
> etc. have become technical terms to describe the tense-forms. There are
> still plenty of people using terms like perfect and imperfect; but for those
> who have decided that a formal label is preferable to a semantic one
> (especially given the divergence of opinion on the significance of the BH
> tense-forms), I would think it an exercise in futility to try to replace
> such terms with something like wayyi$pot.
>
> I'm not saying I like using qatal--just questioning the likelihood of
> changing it.
>
> Trevor
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan D. Safren [mailto:yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 5:28 AM
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Re: Ending on a vowel?
> >
> >
> > Somehow I am bothered by the use of the paradigm verb qatal (kill) in this
> > day and age. Wouldn't katab (write) or $pt (judge, rule, save) be more
> > suitable for scholars specializing in Hebrew Bible?
> > What was good for Gesenius is not necessarily good for us.
> > Sincerely,
> > Jonathan D. Safren
> > Dept. of Biblical Studies
> > Beit Berl College
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Søren Holst" <sh AT teol.ku.dk>
> > To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:29 AM
> > Subject: SV: Ending on a vowel?
> >
> >
> > > How abot a perfectly ordinary 2nd person masc. sing. perfect verb like
> > > qatalta?
> > >
> > > Soren, Cph
> > >
> > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > > > Fra: Peter Kirk [SMTP:Peter_Kirk AT sil.org]
> > > > Sendt: 12. december 2001 19:18
> > > > Til: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > Emne: RE: Ending on a vowel?
> > > >
> > > > Yes. But the only permitted word final vowel point (apart
> > from a silent
> > > > shewa in a kaph or on a final consonant cluster) is qamets, and then
> > only
> > > > following kaph and nun.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [yonsaf AT beitberl.ac.il]
> > > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [06peterson AT cua.edu]
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > leave-b-hebrew-76341TIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is worth it.....trust =
> me.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C18475.62AB0620--
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: qatal vs. katab
> From: Christian Hoffmann <christian.hoffmann AT wsl.ch>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:28:27 +0100
> X-Message-Number: 10
>
> Dear haverim,
>
> Not so long we discussed the choice of qatal as the paradigmatic stem for
> Hebrew verb grammar. We went through all the possible combinations, sorting
> out unwanted consonants, like
>
> aleph, he, waw, khet, yod, ayin, resh: weak letters -> weak stems, rarely
> regular
> beth, kaph, pe: change of hardness with veth, khaph, fe
> mem: is also a prefix
> nun, taw: occur in weak stems
>
> As a result, letters like
>
> gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
>
> will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't remember which else
> seemed attractive.
>
> Does anybody know a written source for this kind of reasoning?
>
> Shalom
> --christian
>
>
> Dr.sc.math.Christian W. Hoffmann
> Mathematics and Statistical Computing
> Landscape Modeling and Web Applications
> Swiss Federal Research Institute WSL
> Zuercherstrasse 111
> CH-8903 Birmensdorf, Switzerland
> phone: ++41-1-739 22 77    fax: ++41-1-739 22 15
> e-mail: christian.hoffmann_at_wsl.ch__prevent_spamming
> www: http://www.wsl.ch/staff/christian.hoffmann/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: qatal vs. katab
> From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" <mauros AT iol.ie>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:02:57 +0000
> X-Message-Number: 11
>
> Apart from the "heavyweight" reference grammars such as Gesenius, or the=20
> 2-volume :
> Jouon, Paul, and Takamitsu Muraoka. A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew. Vol.=20
> 14/I. Orthography and Phonetics: Morphology.
> Vol. 14/II. Syntax: Paradigms and Indices. .
> Subsidia Biblica. Rome: Pontifical Biblical Institute 1991.
>
> I would suggest:
>
> A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar
> Christo H.J. van der Merwe
> Jackie A. Naud=E9
> Jan H. Kroeze
> Biblical Languages 3: Hebrew
>
> which is available in printed form from Sheffield Academic Press, or from=20
> Logos in a most useful electronic form ( see www.logos.com )
>
> At 15:28 14/12/01, Christian Hoffmann wrote:
>
> >Dear haverim,
> >
> >Not so long we discussed the choice of qatal as the paradigmatic stem for
> >Hebrew verb grammar. We went through all the possible combinations, sorting
> >out unwanted consonants, like
> >
> >aleph, he, waw, khet, yod, ayin, resh: weak letters -> weak stems, rarely
> >regular
> >beth, kaph, pe: change of hardness with veth, khaph, fe
> >mem: is also a prefix
> >nun, taw: occur in weak stems
> >
> >As a result, letters like
> >
> >gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
> >
> >will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't remember which else
> >seemed attractive.
> >
> >Does anybody know a written source for this kind of reasoning?
> >
> >Shalom
> >--christian
> >
> >
> >Dr.sc.math.Christian W. Hoffmann
> >Mathematics and Statistical Computing
> >Landscape Modeling and Web Applications
> >Swiss Federal Research Institute WSL
> >Zuercherstrasse 111
> >CH-8903 Birmensdorf, Switzerland
> >phone: ++41-1-739 22 77    fax: ++41-1-739 22 15
> >e-mail: christian.hoffmann_at_wsl.ch__prevent_spamming
> >www: http://www.wsl.ch/staff/christian.hoffmann/
> >
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: [mauros AT iol.ie]
> >To unsubscribe, forward this message to=20
> >$subst('Email.Unsub')
> >To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>
> Maurice A. O'Sullivan  [ Bray, Ireland ]
> mauros AT iol.ie
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:17:25 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 12
>
> >
> >IT WAS HANUKKAH AND THE PEOPLE IN THE TINY
> >VILLAGE WERE IN FEAR OF NOT HAVING ANY LATKES BECAUSE
> >THEY HAD RUN OUT OF FLOUR.
> >RUDOLPH THE RABBI WAS CALLED UPON TO HELP SOLVE
> >THE PROBLEM.
> >
> >HE SAID, "DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN SUBSTITUTE
> >MATZO MEAL FOR THE FLOUR
> >AND THE LATKES WILL BE JUST AS DELICIOUS!"
> >
> >ROSALIE LOOKED TO HER HUSBAND AND SAID, "MORTY,
> >YOU THINK IT'LL WORK?"
> >
> >AND MORTY REPLIED,  "OF COURSE! ... EVERYBODY
> >KNOWS...  RUDOLPH, THE REB, KNOWS GRAIN, DEAR!"
>
> A NEW DREIDLE SONG:
>
>          I
>
> I have a little dreidle
> I made this one from clay
> I thought I'd make another
> And try it a different way.
>
>          II
>
> I took a piece of cardboard
> Some staples and the pen
> But whey I try to use it
> It simply would not spin
>
>          Chorus
>
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> How come you will not spin
> I think I'll make another
> And try my luck again.
>
>          III
>
> I took a piece of metal
> and made one in the shop,
> I tell you then what happened
> When that dreidle dropped
>
>          Chorus
>
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> It fell upon my toe
> and when they take my cast off
> I won't use it any more.
>
>          IV
>
> I made one out of cotton
> It was much fun to play
> I left the window open
> My dreidle flew away
>
>          Chorus
>
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> I thought I'd be so bright,
> I think I'll make another
> This time I'll get it right
>
>          V
>
> I made one out of ice-cream
> It was so nice and sweet
> But one day I was hungry
> My dreidle I did eat
>
>          Chorus
>
> Oh, dreidle, dreidle, dreidle
> I better stick with clay
> And when it's dry and ready
> My dreidle I shall play!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Channukah - Latkes and a new Dreidle song
> From: "Dave Washburn" <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:02:43 -0700
> X-Message-Number: 13
>
> > >
> > >IT WAS HANUKKAH AND THE PEOPLE IN THE TINY
> > >VILLAGE WERE IN FEAR OF NOT HAVING ANY LATKES BECAUSE
> > >THEY HAD RUN OUT OF FLOUR.
> > >RUDOLPH THE RABBI WAS CALLED UPON TO HELP SOLVE
> > >THE PROBLEM.
> > >
> > >HE SAID, "DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN SUBSTITUTE
> > >MATZO MEAL FOR THE FLOUR
> > >AND THE LATKES WILL BE JUST AS DELICIOUS!"
> > >
> > >ROSALIE LOOKED TO HER HUSBAND AND SAID, "MORTY,
> > >YOU THINK IT'LL WORK?"
> > >
> > >AND MORTY REPLIED,  "OF COURSE! ... EVERYBODY
> > >KNOWS...  RUDOLPH, THE REB, KNOWS GRAIN, DEAR!"
> >
> OUCH!!! :-)  [I won't mention the fact that the "dreadful pun" is my
> favorite kind of joke...]
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> This time, like all times, is a very good one if we but know what to
> do with it.
>                   -Emerson
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: qatal vs. katab
> From: "Penner" <pennerkm AT mcmaster.ca>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:46:50 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 14
>
> > As a result, letters like
> >
> > gimel, dalet, zayin, tet, lamed, samekh, tsade, qoph, sin, shin.
> >
> > will remain. qatal is one possible combination. I don't
> > remember which else seemed attractive.
>
> And even of these few remaining consonants, the sibilants (samekh,
> tsade, sin, shin) cause irregularities as the first consonant of a root
> in the Ht binyan. So $PT is out.
> In addition, we'd want the root to be attested in as many binyanim as
> possible (PQD is the most regular root with 7), and preferably with its
> most basic meaning in Qal (unlike DBR), and with active (not stative)
> meaning (unlike KBD and QD$), and reasonably common.
> In short, there is no perfectly suitable root, although the least
> problematic seem to me DBR KBD PQD QD$ RDP.
>
> Ken Penner, M.C.S. (Regent College), M.A. (McMaster)
> Ph.D. Student, Religious Studies,
> Biblical Field (Early Judaism major)
> McMaster University
> Hamilton, Canada
> pennerkm AT mcmaster.ca
> Vocabulary Memorisation Software: http://sensoft.nav.to
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> From: "Peter Kirk" <Peter_Kirk AT sil.org>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:12:31 -0000
> X-Message-Number: 15
>
> Philip and others,
>
> You might also be interested in the following from the Oxford Text Archive,
> http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/ and search for "Old Testament" in the author field:
>
>  Text 1119  Show full details
>
> The Masoretic text of the Old Testament aligned with the Greek text of the
> Septuagint [Electronic resource]
> Format : Plain text
> Source : Source of data: Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia quae antea
> cooperantibus A. Alt, O. Eissfeldt, P. Kahle ediderat R. Kittel / editio
> funditus renovata, adjuvantibus H. Bardtke ... [et al.] cooperantibus H.P.
> Ruger et J. Ziegler ; ediderunt K. Elliger et W. Rudolph ; textum
> Masoreticum curavit H.P. Ruger, Masoram elaboravit G.E. Weil. - Stuttgart :
> Deutsche Bibelstiftung, 1977. - Prolegomena in German, English, French,
> Spanish and Latin. - Added title and text in Hebrew: Torah, Neviim
> u-Khetuvim. - ISBN 3-43805218-0. ; and: Septuaguinta : id est, Vetus
> Testamentum Graecae iuxta LXX interpretes / edidit Alfred Rahlfs. -
> Stuttgart : Wurttembergische Bibelanstalt, 1935. - 2 v. - Text in Greek,
> pref. and introd. in German, English and Latin. - Contents: Vol. 1. Leges et
> historiae - v. 2. Libri poetici et prophetici.
> Size : 44 files : ca. 16.6 megabytes
> Languages : Greek, Ancient
> Hebrew
> Distribution : Freely available for non-commercial use provided that this
> header is included in its entirety with any copy distributed
> Transcriber : Computer Assisted Tools for Septuagint Studies (Project)
>
> Peter Kirk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Philip Engmann [mailto:philipengmann AT yahoo.com]
> > Sent: 08 December 2001 22:59
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Various Hebrew Bible Versions and Manuscripts?
> >
> >
> > Dear Listees,
> >
> > I am looking for all the Old Testament Hebrew Bible
> > Versions online and all the Old Testament Hebrew
> > Manuscripts online.
> >
> > Can anyone help me?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Philip Engmann
> > OT MPhil Student
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Shabbat Shalom and Chag Sameach
> From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:38:26 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 16
>
> As Shabbat descends upon us here in the US Northeast, I'm sending
> this now instead of on Shabbat.  Not humor, but a beautiful true
> Channuka story.
>
> shoshanna
>
> >
> >Young Private Winneger was with the U.S. Army
> >as it marched through Europe at the end of World
> >War II. His unit was assigned to a European village
> >with the orders to secure the town, search for any
> >hiding Nazis and to help the villagers in any way
> >they could.
> >
> >Winneger was on patrol one night when he saw a
> >figure running through a field just outside the village.
> >He shouted, "Halt or I'll shoot." The figure ducked
> >behind a tree. Winneger waited and eventually the
> >figure came out and figuring that Winneger was no
> >longer nearby, went to a spot near a large tree and
> >started to dig. Winneger waited until the figure had
> >finished digging and was once more on the move
> >before he stepped out and again shouted, "Halt or
> >I'll shoot!" The figure ran.  Winneger decided not to
> >shoot but to try to catch the furtive figure. He shortly
> >caught up with the figure and tackled it to the ground.
> >
> >To his surprise he found he had captured a young
> >boy. An ornate menorah had fallen from the boy's
> >hands in the scuffle. Winneger picked up the
> >menorah. The boy tried to grab it back shouting,
> >"Give it to me. It's mine!" Winneger assured the
> >boy that he was among friends. Furthermore, he
> >himself was Jewish. The boy who had just survived
> >several years of the Holocaust and had been in a
> >concentration camp was mistrustful of all men in
> >uniforms. He had been forced to watch the shooting
> >of his father. He had no idea what had become of
> >his mother.
> >
> >In the weeks that followed, Winneger took the young
> >boy, whose name was David, under his wing. As they
> >became closer and closer, Winneger's heart went out
> >to the boy. He offered David the opportunity to come
> >back to New York City with him. David accepted and
> >Winneger went through all the necessary paperwork
> >and officially adopted David.
> >
> >Winneger was active in the New York Jewish community.
> >An acquaintance of his, a curator of the Jewish Museum
> >in Manhattan, saw the menorah. He told David it was a
> >very valuable historic, European Menorah and should be
> >shared with the entire Jewish Community. He  offered
> >David $50,000 for the menorah.
> >
> >But David refused the generous offer saying the menorah
> >had been in his family for over 200 years and that no
> >amount of money could ever make him sell it.
> >
> >When Chanukah came, David and Winneger lit the
> >menorah in the window of their home in New York City.
> >David went upstairs to his room to study and Winneger
> >stayed downstairs in the room with the menorah.
> >
> >There was a knock on the door and Winneger went to
> >answer. He found a woman with a strong German accent
> >who said that she was walking down the street when she
> >saw the menorah in the window. She said that she had
> >once had one just like it in her family and had never seen
> >any other like it.  Could she come and take a closer look?
> >Winneger invited her in and said that the menorah
> >belonged to his son who could perhaps tell her more
> >about it. Winneger went upstairs and called David down
> >to talk to the woman and that is how David was reunited
> >with his mother.
> >
> >This is retelling from memory (so some of the details
> >may be wrong) from a true story told by Rabbi Allan C.
> >Tuffs to the congregation at Matthew Weil's Bar Mitzvah,
> >Temple Shalom, Levittown PA, December 7, 1996.
>
> ---
>
> END OF DIGEST
>
> ---
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