Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk" <Peter_Kirk AT sil.org>]

Harold and Liz have raised here quite a significant issue, which is of much
more general relevance than to the servant passsages in Isaiah.

The prophetic books are filled with formulae like KO AMAR YHWH, NE'UM YHWH
etc. Should these be taken as YHWH's words, or as the words of the prophet
etc? This is an important question especially for translators, who need to
know where to put quotation marks. Also in some languages it may be
impossible, or very confusing, to use third person quotations; one may need
to translate explicitly along the lines of "This is the word of me, the
LORD", but where are such adjustments necessary?

It is clear to me that use of the third person form does not imply the
answer. There are many cases elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible where YHWH is
presented as speaking in the third person. I came across a number of these
in Exodus, e.g. 20:7-12 (part of the Ten Commandments) and 34:6-7 as well as
very often in legal material presented as dictated by YHWH. This is
important as it destroys one argument for interpreting ELOHIM in 21:6 etc as
"judges" rather than "God". But should the "Thus says the LORD" formulae be
understood in the same way?

Peter Kirk


-----Original Message-----
From: Harold R. Holmyard III [mailto:hholmyard AT ont.com]
Sent: 21 January 2001 02:33
To: Biblical Hebrew
Subject: Isaiah's servant


Dear Liz,

>> >God does not speak of himself in the third person.
>> >Where does that occur?
>>
>> Isaiah 45:1 is an example.
>
>Thus says YHWH to his anointed:
>"To Koresh whom I take by his right hand."
>This is not God speaking of himself in the third person.
>This is the prophet quoting what God said.

Liz, you can read it that way, but the NIV treated the speech as beginning
with "Thus says the Lord," without including an quotation marks before "To
Koresh." It is possible that the Lord begins a long address with "to
Cyrus," but it seems more natural to treat the verse with "to Koresh" as
appositional to "to his anointed."

Isa 48:14 seems another place, set as it is between verses 13 and 15, where
God is clearly the speaker.

Isa 51:3 seems another, set between verses 1-2 and 4, where God is the
speaker.

Isa 54:6 seems particularly clear:

"The Lord will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed
in spirit--a wife who married young only to be rejected," says the Lord
your God.

See the speech in 55:3-5:

I will make an everlasting covenant with you, my faithful love promised to
David. See, I have made him a witness to the peoples, a leader and
commander of the peoples. Surely you will summon nations you know not, and
nations that do not know you will hasten to you, because of the Lord your
God, the Holy One of Israel, for he has endowed you with glory.

You can break off the last words as Isaiah's, but the NIV does not do so.

Likewise, God speaks in 55:8-11. You can break off verses 12-13 as Isaiah's
words, but the NIV does not do so.

Likewise, God speaks in Isa 60:15-17 and 21-22. It seems natural to think
that the Lord is speaking in 60:18-20 as well.

Isa 13:13: "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will
shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his
burning anger."

Since Isaiah speaks for God, there is little reason to make a big fuss
about who is talking. But I am comfortable, after many years of reading the
Bible, with the idea that God at times speaks of himself in the third
person.

                                Yours,
                                Harold Holmyard



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