Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Job Wei <h9398374 AT hkstar.com>]

Dear Dr Barre,

At 12:03 10/02/2000 -0800, you wrote:


>I am convinced that the most probable date for Jacobel is contemporaneous
with Akhenaten, 
>Lab'aya, and Hamor.  Thus I would date him to the mid years of Akhenaten's
administration 
>at c. 1360.

>
>The next linchpin is the building of Pi-Rameses under Rameses II who
succeeded Seti in 
>1301.  How long did they work on it before leaving?  Unknowable.  How long
would it have 
>taken to complete the structure?  Unknown to me.  Have you any resources to
address that 
>question?  My Bible Dictionary implicitly approximates 10 years.


I believe it is difficult to get at the historical bedrock here, as we have
no ground to say that Pi-Rameses was built in entireity by those Hebrews in
our focus.  I suggest you buy a copy of "Israel in Egypt" by Hoffmeier.
It's good reference works for the archaeological data in the Nile Delta.  I
cannot remember the time period (and the length) Hoffmeier assigned to this
project, but I gathered that the city itself was a colossial metropolis.
Although Hoffmeier didn't state explicitly in his book, I figure that he
attached himself to a Ramesside exodus. Same for Kitchen.  So the
evangelical Egyptologists have now taken up this position.

As many critics have responded, the data which you used to build your
hypothesis of the sequence and relationship between the historical
personages or eponyms have still been flimsy.  I wouldn't say your
hypothesis is totally implausible as some might want to say, but one can
only construct a very blur picture from the scant data available.  Take the
one sentence that Jacob obtained Shechem by bow and sword as an example, it
is so short a sentence the historian could not extract much kernal of truth
from it.  The biblical author could even have written it only figuratively.
We cannot be sure if the reference was to the inadvertent actions of Levi
and Simeon. Could be yes or no.  And the historical investigation is
complicated by the fact that these personages are eponymous.

According to the scientific method, we need sufficient data to confidently
propose a working hypothesis.  In this case my level of comfort is such that
a working hypothesis cannot yet be drawn.

Having said that, I would say that the reliance of some contributor on Rohl
and other alternative chronologies is even more risky.  Theoretically, it is
safer to stay with the conventional chronology.  The degree of corroboration
is much higher.

 >
>It is entirely reasonable that the reorganization of Canaan began when
Rameses with drew his 
>troops to fight the Hittites at Kadesh, a date of 1283 coming from my
Macmillan Bible Atlas. 
>I am looking for current research on this dating also.
>
>So we have 1360 for Jacobel, c. 1295 for the exodus, encampment at Kadesh
until 1283.  If 
>as is likely the reorganization of Canaan began soon after 1283, this would
put Hoshea son of 
>Nun in his adulthood at this time as a military commander/king of Shechem
which had been in 
>Jacobite possession since Jacob took it from Hamor the Hurrian.

Again, the citation of Hoshea/Joshua, the personal particulars and his
life-stories are very uncertain, I would say.

>
>The kings of Shechem can be traced backwards from Abimelech to Jerubbaal
and to I argue 
>Joshua.  Thus from 1283 we have half a generation for Joshua followed by
Jerubbaal's reign 
>to Abimelech.  Estimating 40 year regnal years we get Joshua (20),
Jerubbaal (40) to 
>Abimelech (23).  1283 (Joshua)-40=1243 (Jerubbaal)-23=1220 (Abimelech).
>
>Coincidentally a severe drought plunged the Mediterranean basin into a deep
decline 
>coinciding with the portrayal of decline in the era of the Deliverers
(Judges) until Deborah's 
>victory over Hazor (c. 1125).  It is also here that we find presupposed an
alliance between 
>12 territories that do not include Simeon, Levi and Judah.  Contrast this
with Merneptah that 
>treats "Israel" as a people of limited territory in the central highlands
and upper Galilee.

My preliminary observation on the Israel of the Merneptah stele is that the
phaorah regarded it as insignificant in terms of territory, his scribes used
the people determinitive.

 
>However, I do think that an alliance was formed to bind the various peoples
together and that 
>it was also called "Israel" (The Penuel tradition) but now meaning for them
a national 
>designation, a designation too new to be known to foreigners like Merneptah
but propagated 
>initially only among the allying tribes.  Early sources for this time or
remembering this time are 
>the Blessing of Moses, the Blessing of Jacob,and the Oracles of Balaam.
>
>Note that if we approximate generations ruling (at age 20 and dying at 60)
in Shechem that 
>the chronology fits well, showing six rulers over the city with two of the
names missing.
>
>1360 (Lab'aya, Hamor, Jacobel)-20=1340 (?)-40=1300 (?)-40=1280[3]
(Hoshea/Joshua)-
>40=1243 (Jerubbaal)-23=1220 (Abimelech).


Thanks for sharing.  Sorry that I haven't got much time to scrutinize the
dates. I hope other experts on the list will do so.

Regards,

C F Wei