Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bill Ross" <wross AT farmerstel.com>]

I have considered the genre and don't agree with your interpretation. What I
was seeking was an evaluation of the Hebrew words themselves - that is the
grammar.

* What is the precise wording. "In sin" or "With sin"?
* Is it explicit in the words whether the "in/with" applies to David or the
mother?

In other words,

* who is the subject of the sentence, David or his mama?
* if "in/with sin" is adjectival, who/what do they describe? David or his
mother? Or his birth?

Many thanks.

Bill Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin W. Woodruff [mailto:cierpke AT prodigy.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 9:15 AM
To: Biblical Hebrew
Cc: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Re: Psalm 51:5


Bill:

I think you have to take the genre of the Pslam  in mind when interpreting
this passage. This is one of the pentitental psalms. David is confessing his
sin with Bathsheba. Bearing this in mind, David is confessing his guilt and
is saying that this sin was not an impulsive action done in the heat of
passion, but that his very nature even from birth is to commit sin. He is
saying I'm a sinner, not just a one-time sinner, but a person who has had
sin nature from birth. the sin and iniquity is David's not his mothers

Kevin



At 11:16 AM 1/10/2000, you wrote:
>Hello, my name is Bill Ross. I'm new to B-Hebrew. I'm just learning Hebrew.
>I joined this list because I often have questions of a translation nature
>and hope to tap into your collected expertise.
>
>I have a question regarding the proper translation (and hence,
>interpretation) of Psalm 51:5. Here are some popular translations:
>
>NIV
>Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
>RSV
>Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive
>me.
>KJV
>Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
>DBY
>Behold, in iniquity was I brought forth, and in sin did my mother conceive
>me.
>YLT
>Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother
>conceive me.
>
>I know enough from my tools to know that the NIV is *highly* interpretive.
>
>My theory is that this verse is not teaching anything about David, but is
>rather David expressing loathing for himself by criminalizing his own
>birth. I would paraphrase it:
>
>"My mother screwed up when she had me - it was a sin for her to conceive
>me!"
>
>...and thus David "curses his day" as did Job in Job 3:
>
>3:1  After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
>2  And Job spake, and said,
>3  Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was
>said, There is a man child conceived.
>4  Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let
>the light shine upon it.
>5  Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon
>it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
>6  As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto
>the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
>7  Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
>8  Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their
>mourning.
>9  Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light,
>but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
>10  Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow
>from mine eyes.
>11  Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I
>came out of the belly?
>12  Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
>13  For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept:
>then had I been at rest,
>14  With kings and counsellors of the earth, which built desolate places
>for themselves;
>15  Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
>16  Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never
>saw light.
>17  There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
>18  There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the
>oppressor.
>19  The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his
>master.
>20  Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the
>bitter in soul;
>21  Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for
>hid treasures;
>22  Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
>23  Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged
>in?
>24  For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like
>the waters.
>25  For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I
>was afraid of is come unto me.
>26  I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet
>trouble came.
>
>Does the Hebrew support or preclude this interpretation??
>
>Thanks in advance:
>
>Bill Ross
>http://members.xoom.com/woundedego
>Download free music from my web page!
>
>
>
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>
Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div.
Library Director/Reference Librarian
Professor of New Testament Greek
Cierpke Memorial Library
Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary
1815 Union Ave.
Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404
United States of America
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http://web.utk.edu/~kwoodruf/woodruff.htm


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