Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Ian Hutchesson <mc2499 AT mclink.it>]

>> >>it is, thus, not a "reporting of an actual event" but the adaptation of a
>> >roman myth which was applied to christianity's own "great man"- jesus.
>> >
>> >Possibly, but *virgin births* for semidivines are known throughout the
>> >ANE, e.g Sargon.
>> 
>> absolutely.  but then one has to wonder which milieu was closer to the
early
>> christian movement- roman society or assyrian.  which seems to be nearer
>> chronologically?  which is the more likely source of belief?

This sort of separation might not be too useful when one considers that
from Assyria to Rome there was a continuum in time and space, with sons of
gods (ie of virgin birth) at various times and locations.

>Paul doesn't know about it and he died in the mid to late
>60's.  Matthew and Luke have different variants.  This seems
>to place the development of the virgin birth sometime between
>70 and 90 CE in Antioch or Ephesus.  4G, supposedly of Ephesian
>origin, has no virgin birth...so did Matthew get it from Luke
>or Luke from Matthew?  Is it possible this was just a Matthean
>aggaddic midrash gone wild amongst the goyim?

Going on a convenient non-definition by Michael Fishbane ("Biblical
Interpretation in Ancient Israel"), he says, "aggadah may nevertheless
serve aptly to denote that category and range of inner-biblical exegesis
which is strictly speaking neither scribal nor legal, on the one hand, nor
concerned with prophecies or futuristic oracles, on the other."

The dissimilarities between the two birth stories hide the similarities,
which would suggest that they have a common source that supplied the
elements, but which each flushed out in their own manner.

The Christian use of Is 7:14 must first be seen as a decontextualisation of
the original statement, which is ostensibly about signs regarding the near
future close encounter with Assyria. It's very hard to give credence to the
LXX parthenos reading, if one reads the context in which the original
statement is contained. We have already had the "son" of Isaiah called "A
remnant shall return" (Shearjashub) - 7:3 - and another child will be born
with the name "The spoil speeds, the prey hastens" (Mahershalalhashbaz) -
8:3 - each related to Assyria's presence, so this son, "God is with us" is
"merely" part of this context, and there is absolutely nothing to suggest
from that context in which alma is found that it could mean "virgin" as in
"parthenos".

The process seems to be quite clear: the translation into Greek involves a
word some of whose collocations are inevitably different from the original
Hebrew term (a translator has to make such linguistic compromises daily).
Given the opportunity with a new set of collocations, contemplation will
inevitably take advantage of those new collocations.


Cheers,


Ian