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  • From: shella <shella AT cswnet.com>
  • To: old-school-baptist AT onelist.com, Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: [old-school-baptist] Re: Textual Criticism (and the rejected post)
  • Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:10:38 -0700




shella wrote:

> From: shella <shella AT cswnet.com>
>
> Dear New Friends in Christ and Brothers and Sisters, I am new to this list
> fellowship
> and I believe I am the one being spoken about here. Another dear brother
> and friend
> and I are discussing the history of Old Testament Textual corruptions and
> developments
> in the course of history. If any of you want me to do so, I will be happy
> to post up
> my discussions here for your consideration and your careful study and
> replies. I am
> not closed minded.
>
> I was raised by a Jewish step-father until I left the home when I was about
> 14. I was
> converted to Christ when I about 13 years old. I am 58 now. This original
> bonding
> with a Jewish step-father enabled me to have some insights into the Jewish
> way of life
> and thinking. I have been able to enter into a great deal of their
> Religious
> materials because of this.
>
> My entire point is that the MT is not the same as the original Hebrew Text
> finalized
> by the members of the Great Assembly, led by Ezra, but is rather a
> recension demanded
> by Jewish rejection of Christ and their reactions to Hellenistic influences
> upon
> Judaism. The anti Hellenistic and anti Christian Jews began the
> development of the M.
> T. in the second century AD and it was not finalized until about the l l th
> century A.
> D.
>
> Let me add that I am very thankful for our friend's suggesting to me this
> list
> fellowship as I need all the help I can get on these and other related
> items. I am a
> student of general church history and Particular Baptist history. I have
> gathered all
> the known Particular Baptist works which are in English and were written in
> the
> 1600s. I, and a handful of others, are updating these into digital
> formatting in Word
> 97 and they are free for usage. I am making plans now to go further back
> into history
> and secure as many of the older Anabaptist works from the dark ages as I
> can. These
> are already gathered and available from the University of the Netherlands,
> but must be
> translated from German and Dutch.
>
> These studies, and others like them, have brought me into a very great
> awareness about
> the differences between Modern Christians and their Texts and historic
> Christians and
> their Texts. In addition I have found that the Christological differences
> between
> historic Christian groups during the dark ages and early Christian ages,
> and modern
> Christians are very great. At the same time I have found that the reported
> heresies
> and false concepts which the early Christians and dark ages Christians did
> hold, may
> not have been as false and heretical as the Papists and others would have
> us to
> believe.
>
> Let me ask this, if this in order. Do you all feel the MT supports the
> Virgin Birth
> of Christ as based on its general term found in Isaiah 7:14? I would love
> to have
> some discussion on that term and its historical implications. The reason
> is, the
> debates between John Calvin and Michael Servetus on the Virgin Birth of
> Christ and
> Servetus' insisting that the Hebrew of Isa. 7:14 does not support the
> Virgin Birth.
> It is my understanding that the term in question supports a young woman,
> but not
> necessarily a virgin. In the past I was able to read and translate Hebrew,
> but over
> the years this I am no longer able to do this as I did in the past. I had
> 6 semesters
> of Hebrew and 8 of Greek during about 10 years of early college and
> seminary studies.
> But, the Hebrew did not bond well with me as the Greek did. There is no
> disrespect
> intended in any way, only my weakness is confessed.
>
> Any helps and thoughts given will be greatly appreciated. I am not a
> scholar and have
> a severe learning disability which sometimes does not let me see words
> properly, I
> invert letters and numbers and it is hard for me to realize this, so any
> faults along
> this line will have to be understood. I don't mind corrections when given
> in love. I
> am an old school particular Baptist minister, retired due to bad health and
> live on
> medical ss disability. I am the moderator of the list fellowship called
> old-school-baptist, and a member of the Historic Baptist Symposium, (Elder
> John Kohler
> is the owner and moderator) which is another discussion list fellowship
> which is also
> very conservative and includes mostly Particular Baptists (Calvinistic to a
> point)
> from across the world. I would like to find also a study group dealing
> with the
> ancient Greek New Testament Texts, loyal to the TR or Majority Texts, also
> known as
> the Byzantine Texts. I enjoy using the pre Christ LXX and support it and
> the M T
> with the historic old Italic texts which I am able to do only in the New
> Testament
> studies until I can secure Stephen's publications from the mid 1500s. May
> the Lord
> bless us all.
>
> Debtor ( Ron Pound).
>
> p.s. if I have said anything out of order in the above, please do forgive
> me and
> overlook my weakness, it was not intentional.
>
> peter_kirk AT sil.org wrote:
>
> > I don't think our friend did actually state what you say. The closest
> > I can find is "I do favor strongly the ancient Jewish writers and
> > their commentaries up to a point, and that is, I leave them when they
> > try to under mine the Messiahship of Jesus Christ." Now this is
> > clearly not going to win the author Jewish friends. But he is not
> > rejecting texts on theological grounds, he is rejecting arguments and
> > doctrinal positions: his point is that he (as a Christian) accepts
> > Jewish arguments on textual matters but not on doctrinal ones.
> > Technically such a comment is indeed out of bounds, but I think we
> > must allow people to make qualifications on how far they agree with
> > another author. For example, a Jewish b-hebrew member might want to
> > express agreement on a technical matter with a Christian interpreter,
> > but should surely be allowed to make it clear that he does not accept
> > the wider doctrinal position of that interpreter. This is, I think,
> > what our anonymous friend is trying to do.
> >
> > Our friend also says that he settles textual differences between LXX
> > traditions based on one of the oldest witnesses to the text, the New
> > Testament. That may be dubious text-critical method, but it is not the
> > same as "reject[ing] certain texts based on their theological
> > implications."
> >
> > Peter Kirk
> >
> > ______________________________ Reply Separator
> > _________________________________
> > Subject: Re[3]: Textual Criticism (and the rejected post)
> > Author: <lewreich AT javanet.com> at Internet
> > Date: 21/10/1999 15:33
> >
> > In the rejected post, the writer clearly stated that he rejected certain
> > texts based on their theological implications. That form of argumentation
> > is clearly out of bounds for this list.
> >
> > Lewis Reich
> >
> > Peter Kirk wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that anonymous messages should not be posted. (Was it
> > > anonymous when Don first found it?) And I think a very good reason for
> > > considering this inappropriate is simply its unscholarly approach
> > > (though that does not mean there are no grains of truth in the
> > > speculation presented as dogmatic truth). But I am concerned at your
> > > comment that "the person's post contains ad hominem, faith-based
> > > arguements, which our charter forbids".
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: Peter_Kirk AT sil.org
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> > $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to b-hebrew as: shella AT cswnet.com
> > To unsubscribe, forward this message to $subst('Email.Unsub')
> > To subscribe, send an email to join-b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu.
>
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