Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Bryan Rocine" <596547 AT ican.net>]

xaveri Randall,

you wrote:

>(lee wrote)
>>No, I do not admit it.  This is exactly the old, traditional view that I
>definitely do
>>not agree with.  Maybe we finally understand each other. :-)
>
>ha-omnam?
>velo havinoti lama yirtsu zarim lada`at safa viyma'anu lomdah.
>
>ramsha tava velel menuHa
>yoHanan bitan
>

'ani zer.  And so that's it?  zarim can't get "in"?  unless led by the hand
by
whom?  ha'im kulanu zarim besafat hatanak?

What do we do with the fairly sizeable body of literature which disputes,
for good reason as far as I can see, the verbal semantics of BH?  Are all
these writers zarim peshutim?   

How about if we consider a few representative examples from Psa 18 shown
below in the RSV translation with the H verb form specified?  Please answer
my questions.

v. 5(Eng 4)
The cords of death encompassed(qatal) me, the torrents of perdition
assailed(yiqtol) me;

How do you find the RSV translation?  What is the Hebrew writer's basis for
the choice between the qatal and yiqtol forms?  Why isn't the yiqtol a
wayyiqtol?

v. 7(Eng 6)
In my distress I called(yiqtol) upon the Lord; to my God I cried(yiqtol)
for help. From his temple he heard(yiqtol) my voice, and my cry to him
reached(yiqtol) his ears.

Is the RSV off-base in translating these as pasts?  Why, in the 2 Sam 22
version of the psalm, can the wayyiqtol vayi$ma` substitute for the yiqtol
yi$ma` here in Psa 18?  What is the so-called vav-hahippuk 'converting' in
2 Sam 22:7? 

v. 8(Eng 7)
Then the earth reeled(wayyiqtol) and rocked(wayyiqtol); the foundations
also of the mountains trembled(yiqtol) and quaked(wayyiqtol), because he
was angry(qatal).

In what sense is the lone yiqtol yirgazu semantically distinct from the
wayyiqtols?  In what way are the wayyiqtols 'converted' and the yiqtol not
'converted'?

v. 9(Eng 8)
Smoke went up(qatal) from his nostrils, and devouring(yiqtol) fire from his
mouth; glowing coals flamed forth(qatal) from him.

How can an 'unconverted' yiqtol to'kel side with two qatals here?

v. 28(Eng 27)
For thou dost deliver(yiqtol) a humble people; but the haughty eyes thou
dost bring down(yiqtol).

(This is what I call 'the generic' yiqtol).  Is the RSV justified in
translating these yiqtols as referring to "the kind of thing the Lord does"
rather than as past perfectives as earlier in the psalm?  Why?

vv. 33-35(Eng 32-34)
the God who girded(participle) me with strength, and made(wayyiqtol) my way
safe.
He made(participle) my feet like hinds' feet, and set(yiqtol) me secure on
the heights.
He trains(participle) my hands for war, so that my arms can bend(weqatal) a
bow of bronze.

How can a so-called 'converted' yiqtol in v. 33 side with an 'unconverted'
yiqtol(as it does so many times in this psalm) in v. 34 and a 'converted'
qatal in v. 35? 

Are we not to believe that BH poetry is BH?

BTW, is the vav-hahippuk attested elsewhere in the Semitic languages?

Please, Randall, respond in English.  I can't even keep up with my e-mail
when it is in English!  ;-)

braxot leka,
Bryan


B. M. Rocine
Associate Pastor
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13208

315-437-6744(w)
315-479-8267(h)