Biblical Hebrew Forum

[GregStffrd AT aol.com]

<< > Dear Eric:
 >
 > Could you please explain what you mean, exactly? ANWQEN in regularly used
in
 > translating 'al and ma'al in the LXX, and I do not see any problem with an
 > original Hebrew/Aramaic discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus, which later
 > was translated into Greek.
 >
 > Of course, it really does not matter either way (see below), but it might
be
 > good if you could further articulate your point about the perceived
"wordplay"
 > that is allegedly not possible in Hebrew/Aramaic.
 
^^^Greg:
 
 The point that is often made about the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus,
as I
 understand it, is that it involves Nicodemus' thinking Jesus meant "born
AGAIN"
 when he meant "born FROM ABOVE." What I have been made to understand is that
there is no single word in Aramaic or Hebrew which can have both these
meanings - i.e., "again" and "above" - as ANWQEN does in Greek. ^^^^


Dear Eric:

Thank you for further explaining your point. I think it is very interesting,
and I am now checking through first century literature to see if a similar
(double) use of ANWQEN can be found. Of course, if what you say is valid, and
it is certainly possible, then it might be another example of a Johannine
"double meaning." 

However, I do not see anything in the context of John 3:3 that requires a
double meaning for ANWQEN in this passage. It seems that the meaning "above"
is well suited in this context where Jesus speaks of a special kind of
"birth," namely, from "water and spirit" (John 3:5) and this would naturally
involve a second "birth." 

If we take ANWQEN in 3:3 as a translation of Jesus' original words, meaning
"above," then we can see how Nicodemus would have understood Jesus as speaking
of a birth other than the one from the womb. Thus, even if ANWQEN does not
have the meaning "again" in this passage, "again" is implied due to the
reference to a second birth.

But ANWQEN may in fact simply mean "again" in verses 3 and 7, and thus Jesus'
original words may have simply meant "again," ANWQEN being used in this sense
to translate his original words. 


^^^^ Hence, for Nicodemus to think Jesus
     meant "again" when Jesus meant "above" suggests that Jesus was talking to
     him in Greek, using ANWQEN, since such confusion would not result if
Jesus 
     had been speaking Aramaic or Hebrew. ^^^^


Yes, but it could be that ANWQEN is used to translate Jesus' Hebrew/Aramaic
words about having to be born "again," without explicit reference to "above,"
though his reference to "spirit" in John 3:5 might imply the supernatural
(above) birth. 

Again, thank you for highlighting this possible double meaning for ANWQEN in
John 3:3.

Greg Stafford