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  • From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] 101 PERMACULTURE DESIGNS, downloadable imgur album - Album on Imgur
  • Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:32:12 -0500

Another valuable historical testimony. I have started a file to save this kind of thing that seems to pop up occasionally for the sake of posterity. The internet is a great resource, but it is very fragile. While we can read clay tablets from ancient Babylon, I have a box of floppy diskettes from the 1990s that are useless to me. Somewhere there might be a machine that can read them, but unlikely. So I will print this on acid free paper. I took a historiography class in my early college years and it made me a "hoarder of historical info", lol. Eventually my small file of printed emails will find itself into a permanent permaculture archive at a university somewhere. Does anyone know of such a place?

Bob Waldrop, Okie City

On 7/31/2015 7:03 PM, HeenanDoherty wrote:
G’day,

I am working pretty closely (like 5 days a week!) with Andrew Jeeves these days —
as you’ve noted Lawrence, he is my partner in producing the ‘Regrarians Handbook’
(2. Geography chapter just released this week —
http://www.regrarians.org/product/regrarians-ehandbook-2-geography/
<http://www.regrarians.org/product/regrarians-ehandbook-2-geography/>).

On the Regrarians Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Regrarians
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/Regrarians>), following the very strong
suggestion of Geoff Lawton’s daughter, Bonnie Lawton Freibergs, that Andrew’s
involvement in the production of the PDM was relatively minor, we had the following
exchange:

Bonnie Lawton Freibergs <https://www.facebook.com/bonnie.lawtonfreibergs?fref=ufi> "Yes
Drew, Andrew, over 2 beyond full-time years, did the designs & illustrations, layout and editing
and worked with with Reny and Francis Mollison in pulling the project together with Bill Mollison
himself." - Sorry that's not true Darren J. Doherty
<https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?hc_location=ufi>. Andrew did some of the illustrations
yes, but not everything. He did not do the cover, for example, and he was paid very well for the work
he did do (two years with full time rate of pay) and that information comes directly from Bill and Lisa
OR you could just flip the book open and check the publishing information = COVER ARTWORK: CAROLYN
WATSON-PAUL. It's a real shame you feel the need to put down the man that started a movement you now
depend on. Bill is a fantastic person who deserves nothing but your respect. I can't speak for Bill and
Lisa but if you are trading off their name/book and using false statements as an endorsement of your
product, I'm not a solicitor, but you could very well find yourself in an actionable position.

Darren J. Doherty <https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?fref=ufi> Thanks Bonnie
<https://www.facebook.com/bonnie.lawtonfreibergs?hc_location=ufi>, very interesting
indeed and I'll let Andrew Jeeves
<https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi> speak for himself on the
matter's that are around his involvement in the development of the PDM.

Otherwise my signed copy of the PDM contains a different reference toAndrew Jeeves
<https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi>'s work than yours
does.

#Revisionism <https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/revisionism?hc_location=ufi>

Andrew Jeeves <https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?fref=ufi> Hello all.
Whilst not wishing to get into a slanging match... the cover Bonnie talks about has
been re-done with the same illustration (my work) and the title rearranged. The
credit to C. W-P. is probably for the rearrangement of the cover. Whilst putting
together the book over a number of years, none of us were paid - we all worked on a
shoestring to try and get the book done. We worked full time and it was either go
out and get money or do the book. We had to juggle all that. You can quote whoever
you like but the arrangement we had and I accepted, was to be paid after the book
was printed with a number of books to be sold/distributed as I wished. I have no
bad feelings about any of that and we did what we did. The three of us had come
from living in Tasmania as part of an intentional community where money was tight
and we were used to working in such circumstances. It is clear that the cover
attribution has changed based on a rearrangement of the cover in a subsequent
edition (the original plates may not have been able to be used). But I did the
whole book except for a few lovely illustrations by Jorge Schultz.

And then a reply from Bill’s grandson (Frances Mollison’s son):

Stuart Muir Wilson <https://www.facebook.com/stuart.m.wilson.7?fref=ufi> What is done is done,
my mum and dad help publish the first edition of the designers manual,while Grandpa (Bill) traveled
to India for his first International PDC withRobyn Francis
<https://www.facebook.com/robyn.francis1?hc_location=ufi>. Mum and Dad are happy not being
acknowledge or paid and have long let it go. Though their contribution is nothing along side Andrews.
I was only a baby at the time and I really enjoy and support Darren
<https://www.facebook.com/DarrenJDoherty?hc_location=ufi> and Andrew
<https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves.3?hc_location=ufi>work. It was a very hectic time from
what I understand. Being the start of a global movement. The PDM was a work of genius. I think
respecting ones elders has been one of the better virtues I have been raised with. I look forward to
reading the Regrarians handbook chapter 1.

The PDM has evidently gone on to sell over 400,000 copies (for between
$80-120) and so in retrospect Andrew (and Frances) would have been wise to
have negotiated a better deal at the time — alas they didn’t and that’s the
way things go some time.

For the record Andrew and I are 50:50 on the royalties of The Regrarians
Handbook — time will tell if it reaches the sales figures of the PDM — but
whatever the case I believe in respecting and honouring the work of my
collaborators appropriately and from the outset.

Thanks and all the best,

Yours & Growing,

Lisa Heenan, Isaebella Doherty & Darren J. Doherty,
Directors,

Regrarians Ltd.

CHECK OUT REGRARIANS.ORG <http://regrarians.org/>!!

like us on facebook <http://bit.ly/RegrariansFB>
join our facebook group <http://bit.ly/RegrariansFBGroup>
follow us on twitter <http://www.twitter.com/regrarians>

+61 (0) 400.840.845
+61 (0) 431.444.836

ALL YOUR LAND NEEDS
#EatBuyGrow • #PlanTrainShow




On 1 Aug 2015, at 03:37, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

Here are links to Andrew Jeeves from a Google search:

Andrew Jeeves : Facets.org.au <http://facets.org.au/>
www.facets.org.au/andrew-jeeves/ <http://www.facets.org.au/andrew-jeeves/>
Andrew Jeeves is a skilled sustainability specialist, with more than 30
years' experience on three continents. He is a widely acknowledged trainer
and presenter ...
Andrew Jeeves | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves
<https://www.facebook.com/andrew.jeeves>
Andrew Jeeves is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with Andrew Jeeves
and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and ...
Andrew Jeeves Profiles | Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/public/Andrew-Jeeves
<https://www.facebook.com/public/Andrew-Jeeves>
Facebook
View the profiles of people named Andrew Jeeves on Facebook. Join Facebook
to connect with Andrew Jeeves and others you may know.
Regrarians Handbook | Regrarians
www.regrarians.org/regrarian-handbook/
<http://www.regrarians.org/regrarian-handbook/>
Darren has joined forces with 'Permaculture: A Designers' Manual' (1988)
Designer, Illustrator & Editor Andrew Jeeves in what promises to be the
production of ...
Andrew Jeeves profiles | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Andrew/Jeeves
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Andrew/Jeeves>
View the profiles of professionals named Andrew Jeeves on LinkedIn. There
are 8 professionals named Andrew Jeeves, who use LinkedIn to exchange ...
PcIntro.htm - Permaculture Activist
www.permacultureactivist.net/intro/PcIntro.htm
<http://www.permacultureactivist.net/intro/PcIntro.htm>
Artist: Andrew Jeeves). Some History: The word "permaculture" was coined
and popularized in the mid 70's by David Holmgren, a young Australian
ecologist, ...

Reverse image search with Google gave the list at this URL of some sites
using Andrew's drawings:

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiubdhEp7aRuzUpfr3LB8SVMvcXkLQXf4PvyUogd6OaQdzwOID2LhBRPdg36bdAOH1pLnSSBfFuqNAjEAFRP9oQQr1v7R1fdWTQHpTsMa62EMA7p8EnZb8QRn8VloPcBFeiQUE76aLwtrgr1oYqFyRW1_1kJectCFG6DEVnoy1z5uJceds6fThZ7tmQ-OSwHKIpIaLHb-V-S9U8wfpCZpGNvkxDlliYlFAi_1wjGm4Y5EN4mFTeC6lZacllXrZ8U-CkeXeXHVD8pWLn0kupM8NOhBzeHrr_1RV3BulGguPyFxcAYQwQPFQjwn0SVJdnvw_1sgFt8Ngn7YopWNfWpRPZB6dso6-ULYM0gMrxnS2L9K2Enda2e2yqJyUO9VkognzE5fn_1C_1Yto-NwwcccTALjoSO_1AEfQXNtCc4dH1FZjXfRnZY1CyH5BTWSxtBz0GvTJgWCJV1OPMOM21HoI9gtwzQhBBXqR7GBfz9fQQKY7F0N1bl5wn6d_14I9uqYH5FzXNLYD282QhfxUZvjMUar2LfuIjtfbWuyEnOk4BRQ56qz5v5HvJbjlejx4egcGs6lMmJljqi3LeVJUJaryF9T1WkzyCHlZIvZtsAkMVs4qUliIESULNJmTqS9ssH4QtaYPSJCaz-PsT35iMgxfjfbi3InGR1UWiFFFNft1YlETRnCauZQ8rqYK_1VEP080TXW9-5oLg9X6pu8DsM7EZyzif2Sfe2PpPw6Os6c1lCrveP5OfbqJ9Vza25ANfoicANOvJSdAABgy9TViCFv-m9AyI_1PutBgnIPQlpGhHt_1cg3OBUk-9W7yM5EBkfqNkfEzNuwGDIm82apgdrG5EF3T5nB_1vtgVettNPwfdLkUHwvPmA07Ay3pXsp9tQhoxdOt2RLp1xk1MtdXd9XEGDSTLre36YnlOglqbfw-Ncd5PGx3I0ZrkuAyukjceLP7J7qUTd95gP4oJ1SHvwsq6veALkbHox2xa86cys02x7RfW9riHnxMDdKfnN1N93G3Iy1rqHQdpus3-ltdm84U9b2ewS5sjMRKgqTGvD0K4OVz3xLsgnRX1H6AzHRY9ZWU3Ezu50G1FlmgAs-9Ev009fyCBF8jJJdO8EgjQLEqd9KENORbVcDTydaoNRY_1HJn2avEmL4_1eeXX_17uOlqhYm3uduQ4iJQOaXT2bm8ktb-kOip8r0cj4hIpVDVDxteCOOsulSwacr_1G5C-FehggzbzfAAmVbe2LiCIg_1MTcPvZOkzgIpFGrLT4ZypMFUvNSNb1g2QEpdDPWBXmKnRPiKrculkjKZKsfR4OOiSKR7Fe1Omung_1DLoNGlXOuCvwi8oZO9yE1AQ-vr9pPdgvR9aP6vSE5EZdXTDZ4ZpUpL9jN9nIIcHWnNFjWxwSIOnpHHRhkcQPZWSB0G2uyliC_1n5frmADzSpq8VtUUKurIeatGjmewNFeSoW61GeY8KKEGQmS9bQK5yIYErqT-23IEE2woswvtJfqR0QFM-Jme-rCGr41dxVvAhaGVVXnhAIa0&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=608&site=imghp&sa=X&ved=0CBkQ9Q8oAGoVChMI9fGV6vOFxwIVEhqSCh2SrQ4h

<https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiubdhEp7aRuzUpfr3LB8SVMvcXkLQXf4PvyUogd6OaQdzwOID2LhBRPdg36bdAOH1pLnSSBfFuqNAjEAFRP9oQQr1v7R1fdWTQHpTsMa62EMA7p8EnZb8QRn8VloPcBFeiQUE76aLwtrgr1oYqFyRW1_1kJectCFG6DEVnoy1z5uJceds6fThZ7tmQ-OSwHKIpIaLHb-V-S9U8wfpCZpGNvkxDlliYlFAi_1wjGm4Y5EN4mFTeC6lZacllXrZ8U-CkeXeXHVD8pWLn0kupM8NOhBzeHrr_1RV3BulGguPyFxcAYQwQPFQjwn0SVJdnvw_1sgFt8Ngn7YopWNfWpRPZB6dso6-ULYM0gMrxnS2L9K2Enda2e2yqJyUO9VkognzE5fn_1C_1Yto-NwwcccTALjoSO_1AEfQXNtCc4dH1FZjXfRnZY1CyH5BTWSxtBz0GvTJgWCJV1OPMOM21HoI9gtwzQhBBXqR7GBfz9fQQKY7F0N1bl5wn6d_14I9uqYH5FzXNLYD282QhfxUZvjMUar2LfuIjtfbWuyEnOk4BRQ56qz5v5HvJbjlejx4egcGs6lMmJljqi3LeVJUJaryF9T1WkzyCHlZIvZtsAkMVs4qUliIESULNJmTqS9ssH4QtaYPSJCaz-PsT35iMgxfjfbi3InGR1UWiFFFNft1YlETRnCauZQ8rqYK_1VEP080TXW9-5oLg9X6pu8DsM7EZyzif2Sfe2PpPw6Os6c1lCrveP5OfbqJ9Vza25ANfoicANOvJSdAABgy9TViCFv-m9AyI_1PutBgnIPQlpGhHt_1cg3OBUk-9W7yM5EBkfqNkfEzNuwGDIm82apgdrG5EF3T5nB_1vtgVettNPwfdLkUHwvPmA07Ay3pXsp9tQhoxdOt2RLp1xk1MtdXd9XEGDSTLre36YnlOglqbfw-Ncd5PGx3I0ZrkuAyukjceLP7J7qUTd95gP4oJ1SHvwsq6veALkbHox2xa86cys02x7RfW9riHnxMDdKfnN1N93G3Iy1rqHQdpus3-ltdm84U9b2ewS5sjMRKgqTGvD0K4OVz3xLsgnRX1H6AzHRY9ZWU3Ezu50G1FlmgAs-9Ev009fyCBF8jJJdO8EgjQLEqd9KENORbVcDTydaoNRY_1HJn2avEmL4_1eeXX_17uOlqhYm3uduQ4iJQOaXT2bm8ktb-kOip8r0cj4hIpVDVDxteCOOsulSwacr_1G5C-FehggzbzfAAmVbe2LiCIg_1MTcPvZOkzgIpFGrLT4ZypMFUvNSNb1g2QEpdDPWBXmKnRPiKrculkjKZKsfR4OOiSKR7Fe1Omung_1DLoNGlXOuCvwi8oZO9yE1AQ-vr9pPdgvR9aP6vSE5EZdXTDZ4ZpUpL9jN9nIIcHWnNFjWxwSIOnpHHRhkcQPZWSB0G2uyliC_1n5frmADzSpq8VtUUKurIeatGjmewNFeSoW61GeY8KKEGQmS9bQK5yIYErqT-23IEE2woswvtJfqR0QFM-Jme-rCGr41dxVvAhaGVVXnhAIa0&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=608&site=imghp&sa=X&ved=0CBkQ9Q8oAGoVChMI9fGV6vOFxwIVEhqSCh2SrQ4h>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com
<mailto:lfljvenaura@gmail.com>>
wrote:

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
wrote:

I love that every one of those drawings is reproduced in violation of
copyright law. If Andrew Jeeves had a penny from everyone who posted a
drawing of his illegally, he’d be rich. It is splendid, useful work, for
sure.

I had a feeling about that when I saw it. The imgur page provided no
credits to the artist who did the work whatsoever. I looked and didn't find
any. Maybe a reverse image search could be done to find an author reference
then post it.
Thanks for letting us know who actually did this excellent work, Toby.
LL

--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/






--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com <mailto:lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
<https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/>
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