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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Michael and Susan Rapkoch" <13rose AT bresnan.net>
  • To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4
  • Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:20:43 -0600

Isn't the entire question first the meaning of the word "communicate?" I join this discussion late and have not reviewed all the archives but Percy would certainly agree that language, whether dyadic or triadic requires, for proper analysis, clarity and ultimately agreement over the meaning of terms. Not even triadic agents can communicate without an established unity of discourse involving meaning. When a child names he "symbolizes," i.e. gives a verbal expression to the object symbolized. The child will make many mistakes at the level of both genera and species which must be corrected to allow meaning to enter his world and communication to follow.


On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:21:36 -0400
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Chimp is a challenge (Nikkibar AT aol.com)
2. Re: Chimp is a challenge (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
3. Re: Chimp is a challenge (Karey Perkins)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:43:24 EDT
From: Nikkibar AT aol.com
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <c18.2f331297.35187d5c AT aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Marcus,

You bring up with painful nostalgia, a long running argument that i carried on with Walker for a great many years. He always asserted that animals of the "lower orders" were unable to communicate -- not only with us but with one another, while I held to the view that 1) he was probably wrong and or 2) that in any event we could never be certain but 3) that it was a measure of our hubris to deny the possibility. As times have gone forward since his death, the empirical jury is still out in my view, but I think my position grows stronger day by day.

Nikki



**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:21:27 -0700
From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
<percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BAY116-W26CEE5DE085A31FBAD7155E4FD0 AT phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Nikki--

Can you elaborate a little on the debate you refer to? Was Walker absolute in his stance, or did he recognize that dyadic communication exists between the "lower orders"? I'm wondering if it was triadic communication that was the sticking point for him, and therefore the true point of argument?
--Rhonda "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea of who he is or what he is doing." Walker Percy


From: Nikkibar AT aol.comDate: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:43:24 -0400To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.orgSubject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge

Dear Marcus,

You bring up with painful nostalgia, a long running argument that i carried on with Walker for a great many years. He always asserted that animals of the "lower orders" were unable to communicate -- not only with us but with one another, while I held to the view that 1) he was probably wrong and or 2) that in any event we could never be certain but 3) that it was a measure of our hubris to deny the possibility. As times have gone forward since his death, the empirical jury is still out in my view, but I think my position grows stronger day by day.

Nikki


Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
_________________________________________________________________
Test your Star IQ
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:47:52 -0400
From: "Karey Perkins" <karey1 AT charter.net>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'"
<percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001001c88dad$46209c20$6401a8c0@Karey>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Rhonda,


Of course, Nikki knows more about what Walker said personally, but in his
writings he always maintained that chimps and other animals could
communicate dyadically - but their sign language and other communication
never rose above the "sign" level to symbol. He seemed pretty adamant about
that, even though it was not written in stone in the general field, as Nikki
says. Interestingly, Susanne Langer, his mentor in symbol (of sorts), felt
otherwise - that higher primates were capable of rudimentary symbol, and
gives examples in her "Philosophy in a New Key." For Walker it seems to be
a qualitative difference; for Langer, it was quantitative.



Karey



_____
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA MCDONNELL
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:21 AM
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge



Nikki--

Can you elaborate a little on the debate you refer to? Was Walker absolute
in his stance, or did he recognize that dyadic communication exists between
the "lower orders"? I'm wondering if it was triadic communication that was
the sticking point for him, and therefore the true point of argument?



--Rhonda
"You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite of
great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest idea
of who he is or what he is doing."
Walker Percy




_____

From: Nikkibar AT aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:43:24 -0400
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge




Dear Marcus,



You bring up with painful nostalgia, a long running argument that i carried
on with Walker for a great many years. He always asserted that animals of
the "lower orders" were unable to communicate -- not only with us but with
one another, while I held to the view that 1) he was probably wrong and or
2) that in any event we could never be certain but 3) that it was a measure
of our hubris to deny the possibility. As times have gone forward since his
death, the empirical jury is still out in my view, but I think my position
grows stronger day by day.



Nikki






_____

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0
0030000000001> the video on AOL Home.



_____
Test your Star IQ Play now!
<http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR>
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