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  • From: Jim Wesson <gypsyjimmy1 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [percy-l] ".. spend and shop,indeed!
  • Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 14:57:48 -0800 (PST)



many people are not on fixed salaries etc and things
have become very, very difficult since 9-11

spend and shop -- along with 'please travel' are
efforts to help the many hurting businesses.
here in williamsburg va,unbelieveably, i have not
had any guests at my 'bed and breakfast' so far this
year. i am very far behind in my reservations. i hope
for more "shop and spend'campaigns.i and lots of
others need help.poor nyc is being devastated.
the combination of 9-11,the sniper,and fear and
uncertainty about war are just having terrible effects
on the buisness ans service industries.
i hope people'shop,spend and travel' when possible.
respectfully,
jim wesson






--- Ken Armstrong <armstron AT ohiou.edu> wrote:
> Having just emerged from the greeting card section
> of a local shop, in
> search of a "sympathy" card, it does seem that
> prepackaged sentiments are
> the order of the day. I like your observation about
> buying our way out of
> the post 9/11 reality. Why is "shop and spend" our
> counter? Why not "attend
> your local place of worship" (I don't think that
> would have caused a
> problem with the establishment clause). At any rate,
> the call to shop
> didn't ring true.
>
> Ken Armstrong
>
> At 03:06 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, Marcus Smith wrote:
> >Does anyone share with me the feeling I get in any
> shopping mall that 90%
> >of what is offered in most shops and boutiques is
> congealed
> >"sentimentality" (aka "cute")?
> >
> >If so, is this tied into the exhortations by our
> leaders to try to buy our
> >way out of post 9-11 fear and to ignore their
> (our?) preparations for mass
> >murder?
> >
> >Fearful trembling in New Orleans one day after Ash
> Wednesday.
> >
> >Marcus Smith
>
> --
>
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail
>
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy


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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 15:01:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Wesson <gypsyjimmy1 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
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lord, many things worse than malls.
really,cheer up,they arn't that bad,are they?

jim
--- David Alan Beck <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
>
> The rare times I'm in the mall, two words go through
> my mind: kitsch and
> despair (of course, kitsch and sentimentality go
> hand-in-hand). Gil Bailie
> refers to shopping malls as museums of nihilism.
> -DB
>
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 marcus AT loyno.edu wrote:
>
> > Does anyone share with me the feeling I get in any
> shopping mall that 90%
> > of what is offered in most shops and boutiques is
> congealed
> > "sentimentality" (aka "cute")?
> >
> > If so, is this tied into the exhortations by our
> leaders to try to buy our
> > way out of post 9-11 fear and to ignore their
> (our?) preparations for mass
> > murder?
> >
> > Fearful trembling in New Orleans one day after Ash
> Wednesday.
> >
> > Marcus Smith
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Percy mentions this in Lost in the Cosmos, too.
> > >
> > >Something like..."Humans are sentimental and
> violent; or rather,
> > sentimental
> > >therefore violoent.
> > >
> > >I suspect he meant that our tendency toward
> violence is not due to a
> > focused
> > >ideological rage or fury but something much less
> interesting --banality.
> > >Sentimentality is a kind of dreamlike insanity
> that masquerades not just
> > as
> > >reality but as a kind of improvement on reality,
> a sort of banal utopic
> > >uber-reality. Additionally, it may be the case
> that when a man's (or
> > >woman's) sentimental vision is challenged or even
> destroyed, either
> > >internally or externally, the violence of his
> response is magnified in
> > >direct disproportion to the distance the vision
> was away from reality.
> > >Rather like having one's dreams shattered. Maybe
> its the dissapointment
> > that
> > >drives the rage. (I've seen this in my own
> relationships. Once, after
> > >hearing a friend sentimentalizing her eventual
> wedding day, I remarked on
> > >the silliness of her fantasies, and that she was
> setting up an unlikely
> > >scenario. Her response was vituperative and
> cutting).
> > >
> > >Sound right?
> > >
> > >SP
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Jim Wesson [mailto:gypsyjimmy1 AT yahoo.com]
> > >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 12:11 PM
> > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical
> Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But there was much tenderness in the forced
> labor
> > >camps . just as 9-11 brought out much tenderness.
> > >there is tenderness all over.
> > > jim w.( can not back this up philosophically
> etc.
> > > just like to read Percy and O'connor.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- "Karey L. Perkins" <karey AT charter.net> wrote:
> > >> I don't know -- except that the quote came from
> her
> > >> originally, as Allen and
> > >> Robert said.
> > >>
> > >> The quote from O'Connor's "A Memoir for
> MaryAnn"
> > >> reads...
> > >>
> > >> "In the absence of this faith now, we govern by
> > >> tenderness. It is
> > >> tenderness which, long since cut off from the
> person
> > >> of Christ, is wrapped
> > >> in theory. When tenderness is detached from
> the
> > >> source of tenderness, its
> > >> logical outcome is terror [terrorism?]. It
> ends in
> > >> forced labor camps and
> > >> in the fumes of the gas chamber" (p. 227
> Mystery and
> > >> Manners).
> > >>
> > >> Sounds like O'Connor and Percy are saying the
> same
> > >> thing.
> > >>
> > >> KP
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Jim Wesson
> > >> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical
> Discussion
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:29 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas
> chamber..."
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> so please, how does f. o'connor come into all
> this?
> > >> jim w
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- "Karey L. Perkins" <karey AT charter.net>
> wrote:
> > >> > Marcus,
> > >> >
> > >> > Percy is speaking in this interview with
> Zoltan
> > >> > Abadi-Nagy about the hidden
> > >> > dogmas of the secular point of view: Dogma 1
> --
> > >> > rejection of human
> > >> > uniqueness and thus of the uniqueness of
> man's
> > >> > symbolizing capacity. Dogma
> > >> > 2 -- the noble savage (no original sin).
> That is,
> > >> > secular humanism preaches
> > >> > the absence of any "unique and fatal flaw [in
> > >> > man]... that cannot be laid to
> > >> > the influence of Western civilization."
> > >> >
> > >> > He concludes that critiques are necessary,
> not
> > >> just
> > >> > of fundamentalist
> > >> > beliefs, but of secular humanism and
> scientific
> > >> > inquiry (for the latter to
> > >> > be "free"). "The warning: if it is not, if
> it is
> > >> > subject to this or that
> > >> > ideology, then do not be surprised if the
> history
> > >> of
> > >> > the Weimar doctors is
> > >> > repeated. Weimar leads to Auschwitz. The
> > >> nihilism
> > >> > of some scientists in
> > >> > the name of ideology or sentimentality and
> the
> > >> > consequent devaluation of the
> > >> > individual human life lead straight to the
> gas
> > >> > chamber" (p. 396,
> > >> > Signposts).
> > >> >
> > >> > In an earlier essay he spoke of the
> > >> > "theorist-consumer" which I think
> > >> > relates to this as well...especially the
> > >> "theorist"
> > >> > part -- which is not
> > >> > concerned about the particular individual. I
> > >> think
> > >> > it also relates to
> > >> > "ideology" which he uses above. And also to
> > >> > "utopian" visions, which Hitler
> > >> > had, which is concerned about the creation of
> > >> > perfect society at the expense
> > >> > of the individual.
>
=== message truncated ===


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Subject: Re: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."
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Strikes me all as sort of "Brave New World"-ish -- behaviorist training of
the children through shock therapy to hate flowers/nature (because they are
free) and to like complicated games with lots of gadgets (because one had to
"consume" -- buy -- them, thus helping the economy). This is like Percy's
"theorist-consumer" -- and we are back "to the gas chambers" which at its
core is the sacrifice of sacredness the individual for the well-being of
smoothly functioning society. Marcel's functional man vs. ontological man.

KP




----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Armstrong
To: marcus AT loyno.edu ; percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas chamber..."


Having just emerged from the greeting card section of a local shop, in
search of a "sympathy" card, it does seem that prepackaged sentiments are
the order of the day. I like your observation about buying our way out of
the post 9/11 reality. Why is "shop and spend" our counter? Why not "attend
your local place of worship" (I don't think that would have caused a
problem with the establishment clause). At any rate, the call to shop
didn't ring true.

Ken Armstrong

At 03:06 PM 3/6/2003 -0600, Marcus Smith wrote:
>Does anyone share with me the feeling I get in any shopping mall that 90%
>of what is offered in most shops and boutiques is congealed
>"sentimentality" (aka "cute")?
>
>If so, is this tied into the exhortations by our leaders to try to buy our
>way out of post 9-11 fear and to ignore their (our?) preparations for mass
>murder?
>
>Fearful trembling in New Orleans one day after Ash Wednesday.
>
>Marcus Smith

--

An archive of all list discussion is available at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Strikes me all as sort of "Brave New =
World"-ish --=20
behaviorist training of the children&nbsp;through shock therapy to hate=20
flowers/nature (because they are free) and to like complicated games =
with lots=20
of gadgets (because one had to "consume"&nbsp;-- buy -- them, thus =
helping the=20
economy).&nbsp; This is like Percy's "theorist-consumer"&nbsp; -- and we =
are=20
back "to the gas chambers" which at its core is the sacrifice of =
sacredness the=20
individual&nbsp;for the well-being of smoothly functioning =
society.&nbsp;=20
Marcel's functional man vs. ontological man.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>KP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Darmstron AT ohiou.edu href=3D"mailto:armstron AT ohiou.edu";>Ken =
Armstrong</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmarcus AT loyno.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:marcus AT loyno.edu";>marcus AT loyno.edu</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dpercy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org=20
href=3D"mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org";>percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: [percy-l] "...to the gas =
chamber..."</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Having just emerged from the greeting card section of a =
local=20
shop, in <BR>search of a "sympathy" card, it does seem that prepackaged=20
sentiments are <BR>the order of the day. I like your observation about =
buying=20
our way out of <BR>the post 9/11 reality. Why is "shop and spend" our =
counter?=20
Why not "attend <BR>your local place of worship" (I don't think that =
would have=20
caused a <BR>problem with the establishment clause). At any rate, the =
call to=20
shop <BR>didn't ring true.<BR><BR>Ken Armstrong<BR><BR>At 03:06 PM =
3/6/2003=20
-0600, Marcus Smith wrote:<BR>&gt;Does anyone share with me the feeling =
I get in=20
any shopping mall that 90%<BR>&gt;of what is offered in most shops and =
boutiques=20
is congealed<BR>&gt;"sentimentality" (aka "cute")?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If so, =
is this=20
tied into the exhortations by our leaders to try to buy our<BR>&gt;way =
out of=20
post 9-11 fear and to ignore their (our?) preparations for=20
mass<BR>&gt;murder?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fearful trembling in New Orleans one =
day=20
after Ash Wednesday.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Marcus Smith<BR><BR>--<BR><BR>An =
archive of=20
all list discussion is available at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail";>http://www.ibiblio.org/w=
percy/hypermail</A><BR><BR>Visit=20
the Walker Percy Project at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy";>http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy</A><=
/BODY></HTML>

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