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  • From: Lewis Cauble <lewis AT hivebody.com>
  • To: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Upward migration and split
  • Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:45:34 -0400 (EDT)

This is the trick.  You want a strong work force but you don't want a swarm.  I find it can be difficult to walk that line.  Try to reduce congestion in the brood nest by making sure they have enough room. You might add a frame or 2 of some foundation or empty drawn comb to a crowded brood nest and give them a honey super.  If you find provisioned swarm cells, it's probably a good time to split the colony.
 
I will say that rainy days like this where the work force is stuck in the colony may tend to push a colony towards building swarm cells.  Everyone is home with nothing to do.  Keep an eye out for cells in crowded colonies when you inspect this weekend.
 
I feel like we have finally made it to that explosive colony growth period.  Colonies that were strong through the winter are bulging at the seams while the smaller overwintered colonies are getting their feet under them and beginning to grow.
 
Lewis

On April 7, 2014 at 11:01 AM Nerissa Rivera <nerissa.rivera AT duke.edu> wrote:
> Hey.
> We have one hive that is full of bees. We were planning to do a split, but thought it was better to do after the spring nectar flow. Was our thinking wrong and we should do the split now?
>
> Nerissa
>
> -----Original Message-----
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re; questions related to upward migration (Thomas Grizzle)
> 2. Re: Questions related to upward migration (Lewis Cauble)
> 3. Re: Questions related to upward migration (Jerry Schoendorf)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 11:52:00 -0400
> From: "Thomas Grizzle" <griz AT mindspring.com>
> To: <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [ocba] Re; questions related to upward migration
> Message-ID: <004201cf51b0$265b3800$7311a800$ AT mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Phil,
>
>
>
> I am fairly new (2 years) so take my advice cautiously, but I have been using two deeps on my hives, which makes it easier to flip the crowded frames back to the bottom. Then I have mediums and/or shallows above the two deeps.
>
>
>
> Another thought, a beekeeper I know uses ONLY mediums, period. So everything is interchangeable.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 13:18:35 -0400
>
> From: Phil DeGuzman <phil.deguzman AT gmail.com>
>
> To: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>
> Subject: [ocba] Questions related to upward migration
>
> Message-ID:
>
>
> <CAGOFQUyg9R0g5dGn4Gg4F3xRVZ-JaYy0zN1YjF-D8odhxaERpA AT mail.gmail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Greetings all! I was cleaning up my hive for the first time since fall earlier this week and noticed that the bees were looking really crowded inside the hive.
>
>
>
> My setup has a deep and three mediums. The lowest two mediums were chock full of brood, pollen and some capped honey, the top medium was about half-and-half capped-and-uncapped honey, but the bottom deep is like a ghost town...no brood, no pollen, no honey.
>
>
>
> My questions are about trying to prevent a swarm. The bees look like they are climbing over one another in the upper three mediums which is very similar to what I noticed last year just before one of my hives swarmed (the remainder of which ultimately died).
>
>
>
> So what would you do? Do nothing and hope for the best? Remove or relocate the deep (but I really don't want honey in the deep). Try a split (which is something I have never done)?
>
>
>
> I have ordered a couple packages and have a couple of ready hives if I need to split.
>
>
>
> Appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or cautionary tales.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 13:20:53 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Lewis Cauble <lewis AT hivebody.com>
> To: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [ocba] Questions related to upward migration
> Message-ID:
> <459828858.35008.1396804853760.JavaMail.vpopmail AT webmail.networksolutionsemail.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Phil,
> This is a great question. Give yourself a pat on the back for recognizing the congestion and understanding where this situation was headed.
>
> There are likely as many ways to deal with this as there are beekeepers and it really depends on what your goals for this year are. Let's look at the suggestions you presented in your post.
>
> 1. Do nothing and hope for the best? There is a chance that the nectar flow will push the queen down in to the brood chamber, but my gut tells me a swarm is the most likely outcome in the do nothing scenario. Swarms are most definitely fun to catch and hive. If catching swarms is a goal, then this is a reasonable approach. I will say that catching one's own swarms is not nearly as fun as catching the other guy's swarms.
>
> 2. Remove or relocate the deep (but I really don't want honey in the deep). We probably don't want 3 supers full of brood either but it's what we have so let's roll with it. Simply move your deep to the top now. Actually I think I would put your super of honey on the very top, your empty deep would be next, then everything else on bottom. Your queen will likely make her way in to the deep and begin laying there. Once she is established there, move the deep back to the bottom with another medium of brood. Put a queen excluder on next, then the rest of your boxes above that. Make sure your queen is below the excluder. Any brood above the excluder will emerge and the bees can back fill those with honey.
>
> 3. Try a split. I think now is a fine time to split colonies. Divide your resources (eggs, uncapped brood, capped brood, honey, and pollen) evenly. Let the split raise their own queen. Make sure you have eggs in each half and don't worry where the queen is when you do the split. You will know in 5 days which colony has the queen (the colony with the queen will have eggs, the queen without will have queen cells).
>
> If you choose #2 you may want to free up some space in the brood nest by placing a frame or 2 of foundation in each of the crowded brood boxes to relieve some pressure. Keep an eye out for swarm cells as you do your inspection. If they are there, go ahead and do a split.
>
> I hope others will chime in.
>
> Lewis
>
>
> On April 4, 2014 at 1:18 PM Phil DeGuzman <phil.deguzman AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Greetings all! I was cleaning up my hive for the first time since
> > fall earlier this week and noticed that the bees were looking really
> > crowded inside the hive.
> >
> > My setup has a deep and three mediums. The lowest two mediums were
> > chock full of brood, pollen and some capped honey, the top medium was
> > about half-and-half capped-and-uncapped honey, but the bottom deep is
> > like a ghost town...no brood, no pollen, no honey.
> > My questions are about trying to prevent a swarm. The bees look like
> > they are climbing over one another in the upper three mediums which is
> > very similar to what I noticed last year just before one of my hives
> > swarmed (the remainder of which ultimately died).
> > So what would you do? Do nothing and hope for the best? Remove or
> > relocate the deep (but I really don't want honey in the deep). Try a
> > split (which is something I have never done)?
> > I have ordered a couple packages and have a couple of ready hives if
> > I need to split.
> > Appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or cautionary tales.
> > Phil
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping|
> > http://www.theocba.org/ Manage Your Subscription:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 20:33:49 -0400
> From: Jerry Schoendorf <jerry AT schoe.com>
> To: Lewis Cauble <lewis AT hivebody.com>
> Cc: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [ocba] Questions related to upward migration
> Message-ID: <6768411D-FB03-4B09-A896-ED11787FEE32 AT schoe.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hello Lewis,
>
> Your explanation and listing of options for a congested brood box(es) is most helpful. Thank-you!
>
>
> We had a 70 degree day back on Feb. 20 and it was used to check my two hives, each having 3 medium 10 frame boxes. The configuration was classic, viz. capped honey above, brood in all stages in the middle, and empty comb below.
>
>
> We had another 70 degree day on March 2 when I found that the queens had been busy and there was some brood in all three boxes but mostly in the middle. Nevertheless, I reversed the bottom two boxes and checker-boarded 2 brood frames with either empty or nectar filled frames in the top two boxes. All boxes in each hive were mapped and recorded.
>
>
> The next 70 degree opportunity was on March 11 and I did what you described in your option two description. Checker-boarding continued, an excluder was added on top followed by a medium super. Frames full of capped brood were moved above the excluder and empty frames distributed below. Everything was mapped again. I felt pretty good at that point.
>
>
> The most recent visit was on April 2. Of the 30 frames below the excluder, 6 were empty foundation, 2 are empty drawn comb, 10 are full brood, 5 are half full of brood, 14 are full of nectar and pollen, and 3 are something in between. But there were some swarm cells!!
>
>
> Questions: have the bees pulled the trigger on swarming in spite of my efforts? Is a split my only recourse?
>
>
> I?d like to keep the work force for the coming nectar flow together. If a split is done now is it possible to remove one of the queens in a couple weeks and consolidate the hives after the nectar flow has started?
>
>
> Your input and suggestions from others is greatly appreciated. This is my first spring as a beekeeper and I?m feeling my way along.
>
>
> Jerry
>
> On Apr 6, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Lewis Cauble <lewis AT hivebody.com> wrote:
>
> > Phil,
> > This is a great question. Give yourself a pat on the back for recognizing the congestion and understanding where this situation was headed.
> >
> > There are likely as many ways to deal with this as there are beekeepers and it really depends on what your goals for this year are. Let's look at the suggestions you presented in your post.
> >
> > 1. Do nothing and hope for the best? There is a chance that the nectar flow will push the queen down in to the brood chamber, but my gut tells me a swarm is the most likely outcome in the do nothing scenario. Swarms are most definitely fun to catch and hive. If catching swarms is a goal, then this is a reasonable approach. I will say that catching one's own swarms is not nearly as fun as catching the other guy's swarms.
> >
> > 2. Remove or relocate the deep (but I really don't want honey in the deep). We probably don't want 3 supers full of brood either but it's what we have so let's roll with it. Simply move your deep to the top now. Actually I think I would put your super of honey on the very top, your empty deep would be next, then everything else on bottom. Your queen will likely make her way in to the deep and begin laying there. Once she is established there, move the deep back to the bottom with another medium of brood. Put a queen excluder on next, then the rest of your boxes above that. Make sure your queen is below the excluder. Any brood above the excluder will emerge and the bees can back fill those with honey.
> >
> > 3. Try a split. I think now is a fine time to split colonies. Divide your resources (eggs, uncapped brood, capped brood, honey, and pollen) evenly. Let the split raise their own queen. Make sure you have eggs in each half and don't worry where the queen is when you do the split. You will know in 5 days which colony has the queen (the colony with the queen will have eggs, the queen without will have queen cells).
> >
> > If you choose #2 you may want to free up some space in the brood nest by placing a frame or 2 of foundation in each of the crowded brood boxes to relieve some pressure. Keep an eye out for swarm cells as you do your inspection. If they are there, go ahead and do a split.
> >
> > I hope others will chime in.
> >
> > Lewis
> >
> >
> > On April 4, 2014 at 1:18 PM Phil DeGuzman <phil.deguzman AT gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Greetings all! I was cleaning up my hive for the first time since fall earlier this week and noticed that the bees were looking really crowded inside the hive.
> >>
> >> My setup has a deep and three mediums. The lowest two mediums were chock full of brood, pollen and some capped honey, the top medium was about half-and-half capped-and-uncapped honey, but the bottom deep is like a ghost town...no brood, no pollen, no honey.
> >> My questions are about trying to prevent a swarm. The bees look like they are climbing over one another in the upper three mediums which is very similar to what I noticed last year just before one of my hives swarmed (the remainder of which ultimately died).
> >> So what would you do? Do nothing and hope for the best? Remove or relocate the deep (but I really don't want honey in the deep). Try a split (which is something I have never done)?
> >> I have ordered a couple packages and have a couple of ready hives if I need to split.
> >> Appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or cautionary tales.
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
> >> ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping|
> >> http://www.theocba.org/ Manage Your Subscription:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
> >
> >
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