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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] Tree clones from different nurseries grow differently

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  • From: Sarah Kehler Ewing <skkewing@yahoo.com>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Tree clones from different nurseries grow differently
  • Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:24:03 -0700 (PDT)

I must respectfully disagree, I think it can be done in some situations and
we will never know which ones until we try.

Over several years, my FIL gave me at least a dozen of his zone 6 horse
chestnuts that he collected in his yard and grew in his garden... and they
all died their first winter every single time without even one ever making it
through.  On the other hand there is a horse chestnut down town Edmonton
(which is a zone 4 on a good year, zone 2 on a bad one).  It is a huge tree
and has been there so long its designated a heritage tree and is protected.  
There are a bunch of people in this area who have collected seeds from this
tree (myself included), grown them and had them thrive well outside of the
city where we hit -47C/-52.6F last winter. 

Obviously the Edmonton tree (actually there are a couple trees in the city,
I've only been to the famous one because its easy to find!) is not native to
this climate so it came from somewhere warmer...  

Perhaps the key is to take seeds from the coldest known zone and move them
only 1/2 to 1 zone colder.
 
Sarah
zone 3
Edmonton, AB


________________________________

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Vavilov wound up in Stalin's jail
partially because he wanted to improve, for one thing, hardiness through
selective breeding. Trofim D. Lysenco believed plants could be taken north
and
grown in colder climates and they would adapt. Stalin believed him and
accepted his theory not Vavilov. Vavilov was thrown in jail. When they found
it
doesn't work it was too late to bring Vavilov back as had died in Stalin's
jail.  http://www.vir.nw.ru/history/vavilov.htm But his follow-up
organization Vavilov Institute of Plant Industry (VIR) became to the Soviet
Union as
our USDA is to the US.
>From abb7@lehigh.edu Fri Aug 26 14:58:58 2011
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Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:51:25 -0400
From: Alexander Brands <abb7@Lehigh.EDU>
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Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Tree clones from different nurseries grow differently
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> Miller isn't the only one making a similar claim. I believe St.
> Lawrence does also.
>
> Raising in a colder climate is not going to change the basic genetics.
> That requires changing the genetic combinations (genotype) generation
> to generation combined with selection.

This is true

> The one thing growing in a cold
> climate does is to provide the stress that helps identify which clones
> are most vulnerable. In the absence of genetic mutations, naturally a
> very slow process, it can only weed out the weakest but not increase
> the strongest. Where the plant is grown is not going to make a
> difference

This may not be true. In animals, including humans, there is good
evidence that the behavior and environment of an individual has an
effect on the phenotype, or characteristics of the offspring. For
example, the eating behavior of a person can have an effect on their
offspring's propensity for obesity, an effect independent of genetics.
Google "epigenetics". This is a relatively new field of study in
biology, and it would not be surprising if more examples are found.
It's not much of a stretch to suppose a similar effect occurs in
vegetatively propagated plants.

Alex

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