Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

corpus-paul - Re: Dating 1 Thessalonians

corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Corpus-Paul

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "David Inglis" <david AT colonialcommerce.com>
  • To: corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Dating 1 Thessalonians
  • Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:00:09 -0400


On April 19 Richard Fellows wrote:
> John Hurd wrote:
> >For me the most compelling evidence for a relatively early date for 1
> >Thessalonians is 1 Thess. 4:13-18. (By relatively early I mean after
> >enough
> >time has elapsed for the writing of 2 Thessalonians but earlier than 1
> >Corinthians.)

Later in the same message John Hurd wrote:

>> This is thus probably the first time that Paul talks with the
Thessalonians about
>> believers who have died before the Day. How long did it take before the
>> first Christian died in this congregation or in one known to them? This
>> looks like early stuff.

John,

It’s important to understand what ‘early’ means in this context. I agree
that it is the kind of information that you would expect Paul to impart in
a first letter, but it really gives no clue as to when it was written,
either in absolute terms, or in relation to letters to others. All we can
say is that this is understandable material in a first letter to a
congregation, and we have to rely on other information to determine when
the congregation was established, and when the letter was sent.

> I agree that 1 Thess was written before 1 Cor. If it were written after 1
> Cor, we would expect mentions of the collection.

Richard,

I don’t agree with your ordering of events, for a number of reasons as
given below.

First, in 1 Cor 16:1 Paul says “please follow the directions that I gave
to the churches of Galatia”, a clear implication that Paul had not yet
given the directions regarding the collection to the churches in
Macedonia. He then makes it plain that he is going to Macedonia “But I
will come to you after I have gone through Macedonia—for I will be going
through Macedonia” (1 Cor 16:5), but is currently staying in Ephesus “But
I will stay in Ephesus until Pentecost” (1 Cor 16:8). This is exactly
what you would expect if Paul had written 1 Cor while in Ephesus after
having passed through Galatia and Phrygia (Acts 18:23), and prior to going
to Macedonia (Acts 20:1-2).

Note that the same objections to placing the writing of 1 Thess earlier in
either Athens or Corinth (Acts 17:16 – 18:17) apply to placing the writing
of it in Ephesus during this time. Paul’s only recorded visit to
Thessalonica is the short one in Acts 17:1-10, which in no way corresponds
to the description in 1 Thess 1, e.g. “For people everywhere report how
you welcomed us and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living
and true God” (1 Thess 1:9). For these reasons I do not see how Paul
could write 1 Thess prior to passing through Macedonia (Acts 20:1-2).

> Also, there is no
> referrence in the letter to an anticipated visit by Paul to Macedonia, or
> to a recent return by Paul to Macedonia.

The first point simply makes it reasonable to suppose that 1 Thess was not
written prior to an anticipated visit. As to the second point, a return
visit is mentioned many times: “For people everywhere report how you
welcomed us” (1 Thess 1:9). The whole of chapter 2 recalls the visit,
which was then cut short (1 Thess 2:17-3:1), and because Paul was not able
to return from Athens he sent Timothy instead (1 Thess 3:2-13). Clearly,
1 Thess was written after Paul had been to Thessalonica for a second time,
and most likely from either Athens or Corinth, which places the writing of
the letter no earlier than the three months in Greece recorded in Acts
20:2-3.

> Furthermore, the mention of
> Silvanus, and the absence of Aristarchus argue for a date before 1
> Corinthians.

As Silvanus is only mentioned by Paul in 2 Cor and 1 & 2 Thess, I don’t
understand why the lack of a mention of Silvanus in 1 Cor is a problem.
If 1 Cor is first and Paul met Silvanus after writing 1 Cor, then this
would be natural. In fact, I think there would be a problem the other way
around: If 1 Cor came after 1 Thess, then why would Paul not mention
Silvanus in 1 Cor, but mention him in 2 Cor?

If 1 Thess was written after Paul had traveled from Thessalonica to
Athens, it is perfectly reasonable to suppose that Aristarchus stayed in
Thessalonica, and re-joined Paul as he passed back through Macedonia after
having left Corinth (Acts 20:4). His absence from 1 Thess is therefore
natural.

> Here's how I think the sequence goes.
>
> Evangelistic visit to Macedonia and Achaia.
> Paul journeys to 'every place' (1 Thess 1:9) (Acts 18:18-23)
> Paul makes a second, sorrowful visit to Athens (but not Corinth). (1 Thess
> 3:1, 2 Cor 2:1; 12:14; 13:1: 13:2).
> Paul writes 1 Thess.
> Paul writes the tearful letter
> Paul writes 1 Corinthians

I don’t understand how you can place 1 Cor after 1 Thess here. Paul makes
it plain in 1 Cor 16:8 that he is either in (the most natural reading) or
going to be in Ephesus, and the only place this fits is in Acts 19. If
you agree that 1 Cor was written from Ephesus, then Paul had not been to
Macedonia yet, and so would not have had the visit to Thessalonica
described in 1 Thess 2.

> Paul travels to the Troad and Macedonia and writes 2 Corinthians

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the ‘sorrowful
visit’ recorded in 2 Cor actually took place prior to 1 Cor, and for some
reason Paul simply didn’t see any reason to mention it in 1 Cor? This
seems very unlikely.

Dave Inglis
david AT colonialcommerce.com
3538 O'Connor Drive
Lafayette, CA, USA




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page