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  • From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>
  • To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Paul's "dying for us" language
  • Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:04:59 -0600


Bill Ross wrote:

> {Jeff}
> While Jesus' death -- or more importantly, the faithfulness of Jesus (unto
> death) --
> is often associated in Paul's writings with "justification", justification
> itself,
> let alone Jesus' death or the "faith of Jesus", is hardly *consistently*
> linked to
> the "forgiveness of sins". Indeed, except for the passage from Romans that
> you
> quoted, "justification" is almost *never* found in Paul in association with
> the idea
> of "forgiveness".
>
> {Bill}
> Jeff, my point is that Paul defined what he meant by justification.
> Everywhere he
> uses the term he is referring to justification based on this definition:
>
> Romans 3:
> 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being
> justified
> freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25
> Whom God
> hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare
> his
> righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
> through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his
> righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which
> believeth in
> Jesus.
>
> Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that
> **justifieth**
> the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also
> **describeth** the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth
> righteousness
> without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are
> **forgiven**, and
> whose **sins are covered**. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not
> impute
> sin.
>
> Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the
> forgiveness of
> sins, according to the riches of his grace;

> Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one
> another,
>
> even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
>
> Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the
> forgiveness
> of
> sins:
>

And my response to your point is that this is a thesis that would need to be
argued.
Can you so easily assume that this definition, though not stated until Romans
is
assumed to be standing behind "justification" texts that appear in Epistles
that are
earlier than Romans?

In any case, if you chose to pursue this, you might wish to take note that
you ground
your idea on at least four assumptions that many others here would find
questionable,
namely, (1) that the translations of Romans, Ephesians, and Colossians that
you work
from are fairly accurate (Rom 3:25, for instance, does NOT speak of
"propitiation");
(2) that Rom 3:24-25 is actually Paul's definition of justification; (3) that
"forgiveness of sins" (let alone "justification") according to Paul is an
individual
experience or how the sinner finds a gracious God, rather than something that
is
corporate and involves over coming the hostility between Jews and Gentiles;
(4) that
"blood" is equivalent to death, let alone a death suffered in substitution
for others
or a price paid to an angry God who demands a death as satisfaction for some
grave
offense to his honour; and (5) that Colossians and Ephesians are Pauline.

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net






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