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  • From: "Rolf Furuli" <rolf.furuli AT sf-nett.no>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 44:24
  • Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:02:36 +0200

Dear Barry,

I am not sure what you mean by the word "incredible."

There are several problems if we try to use the verbs of the LXX in order to
understand the meanings of the Hebrew verbs in the Tanakh. First, the
translation quality of the books of the LXX is variable. This shows that the
skills of the translators were different. Second, the translators did not
have written grammars that made the fine distinctions between the meanings of
the verbs as we find in modern grammars. Third, if Classical Hebrew is an
aspectual language, there are fine (aspectual) nuances between the verb
forms, and it is not easy to grasp these nuances without a long and careful
study. Fourth, If Hebrew only codes for aspect and not for tense, as I
believe, something may be lost or added when Hebrew verbs are rendered into
Greek, where some forms only code for tense, others only code for aspect, and
others code for both tense and aspect.

I would like to illustrate the situation from my experience with my Akkadian
classes. To identify the basic forms IPRUS (which wrongly is called
"preterite," because it is not a tense) and IPARRAS (which wrongly is
called "present," because it is not a tense) is difficult in some of the
stems. The students prepared for the lessons looking up the words and
translating a text, and this required much work. When a student read a line
or two in class, s/he had to translate this text. Then, when I asked if a
particular verb was "present" or "preterite," often the student could not
answer, because this was difficult and s/he had not considered it. On which
basis had the student made his or her translation? On the basis of the
lexical meanings of the words and the context, whether the context showed
that the action was past present or future. The finer nuances of the action,
which required more work to find where often ignored. When this so often
happens in a class where the students are grammatically drilled and are
encouraged to look for aspectual nuances, how much more in an environment
where this drill and education is lacking, as probably was the case with the
Greek translators.

I do not say that some LXX translators did not look for nuances in the Hebrew
verbs. But my impression is that the task the translators viewed as their
basic one, was to find whether the action was past, present or future, and
then convey this into Greek. One reason for all the aorists in the LXX is
that a great part of the actions in the Tanakh are past, and aorist very
often is used with past reference, although it can also refer to the future.
Evidently, there were also some linguistic conventions that the translators
followed, and therefore we see certain patterns of how Hebrew verb forms are
rendered into Greek. But to draw any conclusions as to the meaning and
nuances of the Hebrew conjugations and stems on the basis of the renderings
of the LXX, is in my view impossible.


Best regards,


Rolf Furuli
Stavern
Norway


Lørdag 28. September 2013 12:37 CEST skrev Barry <nebarry AT verizon.net>:

> I find this statement rather...incredible. What it tells us is how the
> translator, involved in both linguistic communities, conceptualized the
> verbs. In Isaiah 44:24 we have him rendering with both present substantive
> participles and aorist main verbs. I don't think we can ignore this, and
> how the ancient translators (especially the LXX and Jerome) rendered these
> has to inform our own theories with regard to Hebrew verbs. The fact that
> there is not a "one-to-one correspondence" is in itself an important datum.
>
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> Sent from my iPad
> Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution
> with which I may be affiliated
>
> >
> > RF: There is not a one-to-one correspondence between the Hebrew verb
> > forms of the Tanakh and the Greek verb forms in the LXX. Therefore, in my
> > opinion, the use of verbs in the LXX tells us nothing about the meaning
> > of the verbs in the Hebrew text.







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