Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: fred burlingame <tensorpath AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence
  • Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:52:47 -0500

1. DAR$-AH is present? E$ET XAIL is the main shabat-night PIUT, sung before meal with great gusto, extolling the virtuous and diligent deeds of Mrs. Busy-Busy (who is sitting beaming at the table opposite her husband, Mr. GEBER-GEBER, with all her children around her K- $TIYL-EY ZEIT-IYM) during the previous week (during the week Mr. GEBER-GEBER is busy sitting at the town gate with "ZIQN-EI AREC").
2. VA-TA-AS is: (and it came to pass that)-she-do. The past is indicated by the attached verb VA.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Feb 2, 2011, at 9:52 AM, fred burlingame wrote:

lol

i'm happy for the agreement with the mainstream conclusion.

but .... then we arrive at .... proverbs 31:13 .....

1. root + PP indicates present acton, as in "dar-sha?"

2. VA + PP + root indicates present action, as in "va-ta-as?"

i agree with your paragraph 4, assuming the equivalency of "bet" and "vav" letters.

regards,

fred burlingame

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
Appears to me that we are in agreement without the need for "conversion". PP = personal pronoun.
1. root+PP indicates past action, as in BA-TA = BA-ATAH.
2. PP+root indicates future action as in TA-BO. Also PP+root+PP, as in TA-BO-YI.
3. VA+PP+root indicates past action, as in VA-TA-BO. Also VA+PP+root +PP, as in VA-TA-BO-YI.
4. It is really late at night, but can we agree that VA means something like 'and it came to pass that'?
5. It is not clear to me at the moment what is the role of the L in VA-YI-LAKAX, 'he was taken', as compared with VA-YI-KAX, 'he took'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:52 PM, fred burlingame wrote:

that is my understanding .... of the mainstream view ....

vav prefixed to a pronomial prefixed verb .... functions as

a. conjunction; and

b. tense converter.

but i am not unmindful of your teaching .... to wit:

ו (vav) = ב (bet), whose literal meaning = thicken; and whose abstract meaning = to come into being; and which latter letter births in turn the verb בוא (boh or voh).

perhaps the solution resides in the eternal perspective, rather than the space/time perspective of our universe. .... in other words, the hebrew language sees only the present .... or "avraham acts again and takes a woman" ....; no past; no future, only present; and pronomial suffixed verbs = pronomial prefixed verbs .... much as noun synonyms ... :)

regards,

fred burlingame

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
3. So is this a "conjunction" vav (it is actually VA, not a mere V) or a "conversive" vav, or both?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:04 PM, fred burlingame wrote:

that is my understanding of the conventional wisdom ... the ebb and flow of the tide:

1. לקח , la-ka = base form of verb, pronomial suffix form (but without pronoun appearing in this instance), and instructing past tense;

2. יקח , yi-ka = iteration no. 1, pronomial prefix form of verb, with pronoun yod appearing and instructing future tense;

3. ויקח , va-yi-ka = iteration no. 2, pronomial prefix form of verb, with pronoun yod appearing, and conjunction vav also prefixed, which converts verb back into past tense.

regards,

fred burlingame






Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page