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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation

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  • From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • To: Vadim Cherny <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH pronunciation
  • Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:56:31 +0100

On 01/08/2005 19:23, Vadim Cherny wrote:

Just to clarify here, the root we are considering is conventionally
regarded as HWH but is in fact more correctly HWY (or perhaps HWW),
because the final he (which has no mappiq, so I my suggestion has no
problem with mappiq) is in fact not a pronounced he but a mater
lectionis replacing an original yod (or perhaps vav).


Not impossible, but hardly a fact. I doubt ayn-ayn for hi or hw cell.


Well, it is a fact that in EVERY part of lamed-he verbs in which the final he is actually written, that he is a mater lectionis, as pointed by the Masoretes. For it is always word final, and never has mappiq. This of course excludes a small class of verbs where the third radical is an actual consonantal he, pointed with mappiq when word final - but HWH is not one of those verbs.

...


Then aleph in Iao is unlikely to originate from schwa. Rather, Y- I, H- a,
WH - o.


I never said it did arise from schwa. But I note that he (in biblical Hebrew), when not word final, NEVER represents an "a" sound, but always a pronounced consonant - as you recognise below apparently with your garbled "vcvv".

also the name of king Yehu' (Jehu), which is EIOU,
IHOU or IOU in Greek (H = eta) with no consonant replacing he.


Here he survived, as you see, though mutilated. Undoubtedly, you recognize
that similar pronunciation cannot make Iao out of ihie or ihwe.


Indeed. I never claimed that Iao is derived from anything like ihie or ihwe. Probably it is derived from the original form of the prefix of theophoric names, which was probably Yaho-, later shortened to Yeho- with a schwa.

In my opinion, you unwarrantedly ignore a rare phonetic environment of YHWH,
vcvv. ...


I don't understand this. The yod MUST be a consonant because ALL Hebrew words start with a consonant. The final he may be a consonant, but is probably silent. I accept that we cannot be sure a priori whether the vav was a vowel or a consonant. Also, I don't know of any cases in biblical Hebrew where -WH is used for a word final "o" sound - it is either W or H, but not both of them together. There are of course cases of -WH where the H is a consonant with mappiq and furtive patah e.g. the divine name Eloah [consonants: )LWH ]. And I accept that it is hard to rule out a pronunciation of the name Yehoah, yod-sheva-he-vav-holam-furtive patah-he-mappiq - especially as Iao might support this. On the other hand, there is evidence which I posted earlier today for a final -e vowel sound.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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