Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] KTWR in 1 Chronicles 17:17

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] KTWR in 1 Chronicles 17:17
  • Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:05:07 +0000

This one is tough. The LXX has EPEIDES ME hWS hPASIS ANQPWPOU

"and you gaze upon me as the appearance of men."

H.A.L.O.T. says this is textual uncertainty. But it list sequence, or turn
for other definitions. So maybe it is "and you see me as the sequence of
man." Or "and you see me as the turning or man." that one does not make
much sense.

Another interesting point is that the parallet text in 2 Sam 7:19 has TORAT
the femine construct of torah, makes you wonder if this is some sort of
variant.

And lastly the NET bible has some weird thing it did with it. They took the
qal WR:'IYTANIY and translated it as a hiphil. And said K:TWR means
'searching'

And came up with "and you revealed to me the searching of man, what lies
beyond." Makes sense, but I don't know if it is right.
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------

> In reading through 1 Chronicles I noticed that KTWR is
> listed as being from the root TWR with a prefixed K-
> referring to a man's turn in life, or something like that.
> However, I wonder if it is from the root meaning to make a
> circle, referring to the cycle of life? If so, it would be
> a happax legomai for this term. Any thoughts?
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>From gathas AT hotkey.net.au Mon Aug 1 21:10:56 2005
Return-Path: <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from duckula.hotkey.net.au (duckula.hotkey.net.au [202.138.0.111])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501114C006
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 21:10:55 -0400
(EDT)
Received: from duckula.hotkey.net.au (duckula [127.0.0.1])
by duckula.hotkey.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721A28C
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 01:12:29 +1000
(EST)
Received: from Presario (142.a.001.syd.iprimus.net.au [210.50.68.142])
by duckula.hotkey.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id C9A36282
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 2 Aug 2005 01:12:27 +1000
(EST)
Message-ID: <00b201c596ff$05144ad0$418432d2@Presario>
From: "George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
References:
<011e01c59310$9c88d4a0$6800a8c0@hp><000d01c593a2$6915f980$ea81fea9@ttttt><a06020403bf0edda94800@[205.242.61.236]><018301c595c8$cb36a100$578532d2@Presario>
<000601c59658$0eccfa10$ea81fea9@ttttt>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:09:44 +1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-Virus-Scanned: Hotkey Virus Scan
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbs
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 01:10:56 -0000

Rolf Said:=20
Bryan`s model can be true, and your model can be true, but hardly both
models. They are both based on internal evidence and logic, but on the =
basis
of which data can we test them? You speak of distance and a spatial
perspective, which in some languages are characteristics of verbs (see =
B.=20
Comrie (1985). "Tense," chapter 4). But do we have texts in the Tanakh, =
on the
basis of which we can establish that distance is a characteristic of
particular conjugations?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Good question, Rolf. I have essentially tried to see where the failure =
of tense models lies, and it is precisely in trying to see the =
temporality of actions being connected to morphology. It simply doesn't =
work. I have, therefore, tried to look at the verbs on a spatial plane, =
rather than a temporal plane. This has yielded suprisingly good results =
which seems to accord well with morhpology also. Biblical Hebrew is =
geared towards the spatial plane, seeing things (actions, nouns, etc) as =
being 'located' in various places, rather than occuring at various =
times. The prepositions of Hebrew are almost all spatial in meaning, and =
temporal meanings are only secondarily derived. This hints at the Hebrew =
mindset.

You can try the theory out with just about any 'early' Hebrew text. I am =
still to work properly with Qohelet and other texts which may present =
later developments of Hebrew, so I haven't really tested it out there. =
Otherwise, try it in the Pentateuch, Former and Later Prophets, and =
Psalms.


Best regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
Lecturer in Biblical Languages
Southern Cross College
Sydney, Australia




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page