Permaculture Information Web

[Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor AT yahoo.com.au>]

hi

still wrong, i had an old email, with exact same address wich i clicked on and it worked, i will track down problem

martin 

Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor AT yahoo.com.au> wrote:

hi

this should be, http://en.wikipedia.org/wki/Concept_map

martin

Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor AT yahoo.com.au> wrote:

hi

this might help you guys, and a lot of other people in other areas, there is verry little time left to make a quantum leap forward, or one small step for man

one giant leap backwards for mankind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wki/Concept-map  

love peace happines

martin

Margot Turner <margot_turner AT optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Dear Terry

Your systems approach seems to be exploring the complexity and diversity in
John Coates' holism approach. There are so many ways in which people
perceive systems, to try and drill down to specifics too soon can limit the
capture of the complexity and diversity within the whole.

I see the Permaculture ethics and principles helpful here. The principles
explore the way systems emerge and evolve in a way which is not limiting.
David Holmgren's site has a good overview of the principles.

Best wishes

Margot Turner

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-oceania-admin AT lists.cat.org.au
[mailto:permaculture-oceania-admin AT lists.cat.org.au] On Behalf Of Terry
Leahy
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:41 PM
To: permaculture-oceania AT lists.cat.org.au
Subject: Re: [permaculture-oceania] systems and ethics

Dear Rick and Naomi, Thanks for these comments. Interesting what you say
about the permaculture set. You are right that we should refer to this and
promote it. I agree with care of the earth and people but I am not so sure
about sharing the surplus. To me there are all kinds of assumptions about
self sufficiency and economic systems built into that which I have some
problems with. I'll put out the bit I am working on at the moment about
economic and political models in a week or so. Anyway look forward to
seeing you at the conference and thanks for doing all this work for the
permaculture movement, it must be overwhelming,

Terry

>Hi Terry,
>
>I prefer the systems approach in theory as well as in its ability to reach
>more people more effectively.
>
>The HOLISM message may have value, but the way it comes across is less
>effective in my opinion. It is too general, it doesnt necessarily offer any
>meaningful actions to precipitate a change, it doesnt engage.
>
>The systems approach you have written has the capacity to engage people
more
>widely in dialogue as it is more specific, whilst still retaining a feel of
>an ethical basis.
>
>I would still recommend the permaculture ethics as major guidelines. Care
of
>Earth, Care of People and Share of Surplus incorporates all of your systems
>material, but in a different way. Why not stick to what's already out in
the
>public domain, and use the opportunity to promote a known system such as
>permaculture more widely.
>
>I would love to contribute to this in more depth, but APC8 is taking up all
>my time at the moment, so all the best
>Naomi Coleman
>Southern Cross Permaculture Institute
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Terry Leahy"
> ; ;To:
>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:17 PM
>Subject: [permaculture-oceania] systems and ethics
>
>
>> Dear Permaculture fans,
>>
>> I was wondering if I could get any comment on this little statement. I
am
>> working with John Coates - a social worker environmentalist from Canada -
>> on a paper with a fairly general aim - what is going wrong and what can
be
>> done about it! We are writing different bits and he created a short
>> statement of what he thinks the new environmentalist paradigm for culture
>> is, which I was not entirely sure I agreed with. After thinking about it
>> for a while I thought I had better come up with an alternative and am
>> wondering what permaculturists might think about all this. His version I
>> have labelled "holism" and my own version I have called "systems"
>>
&a mp;g t;> HOLISM
>>
>> Wholeness: We are WHOLE beings. Earth is ONE Community.
>> Diversity and complexity exist within the whole
>>
>> Interdependence: Earth exists to be shared by all things. Limits
>> exist as individual well-being is dependent on the well being of all.
>>
>>
>> Emergence: The Universe, Earth, and Humanity are unfolding
>> Every being plays a role in their own emergence and that of the whole.
>>
>> SYSTEMS
>>
>> Systems: Life on Earth is a geological and biological system. Within
>this
>> overarching whole there are many overlapping and interlocking subsystems
>> (ecologies, catchments, villages, economies etc). While all objects and
>> living beings may be conceived as independent in particular contexts,
they
>> are also tied into many systems. Given the power of our technology, our
> ;> s urvival and that of other species requires that we pay careful attention
>> to these interactions. Changes made to any element can have cascading
and
>> potentially disastrous effects. We have to make sure that we are not
>> cutting the stitch that will unravel the whole cardigan.
>>
>> Love: While many of the things that humans can take pleasure in are quite
>> obvious - a dry bed, interesting work, respect, good sex etc. - it is
also
>> becoming more and more clear that we can get intense joy out of love.
>> Caring for other people and other beings is a great pleasure for our
>> species. We can call this "spiritual growth" but the experience is no
>more
>> insubstantial than any more mundane pleasure. The most basic _expression_
>of
>> our love for other beings is to share the planet and its resources.
>>
>> A Link: While there is no substitu te for g ood science, our chances of
>> survival as a species depend on us developing our capacities to care for
>> and feel empathy for other people and other living beings. With them, we
>> share many of the systems which make up life on earth and our care and
>> attention to their needs can help us to pay attention in ways that will
>end
>> up helping us to survive.
>>
>> Emergence: Emergence is a property of systems. What emerges from the
>> operation of any system and its interactions with other systems are
always
>> developments that cannot be deduced from an examination of the elements
of
>> a system. These emerging properties are ongoing. The Universe, Earth,
>and
>> Humanity are unfolding. Every being plays a role in their own emergence
>and
>> that of the whole.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> permaculture-oceania AT lists.cat.org.au
>> http://lists.cat.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/permaculture-oceania
>>
>
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