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  • From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Suggestions for an open permaculture curriculum list to use for guided self education
  • Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2025 07:38:53 -0700


On Sat, Aug 2, 2025 at 5:05 AM Christian Skiba <c.skiba@gmx.de> wrote:
Dear Lawrence,

thanks for sharing. 
And special thanks for pointing me to Donella Meadows' book "Thinking in Systems," which I hadn't heard of before.
(it is available here: https://research.fit.edu/media/site-specific/researchfitedu/coast-climate-adaptation-library/climate-communications/psychology-amp-behavior/Meadows-2008.-Thinking-in-Systems.pdf)

I'd like to add to your list the books by Frederic Vester, a German cyberneticist who has written extensively on ecological systems. I hope they're available in English.

Hello Christian:

Thanks very much for the extra references. Good that they are now included in the bibliography along with countless others represented by the message archives of this list which are (Google site: command) searchable and can be downloaded (HTTracker).
There is so much important new research described in new published works these days on ecology and ecosystems. It amplifies work done in years past by professionals and laymen. 
Much of that was discussed online, sometimes here and in other forums (sanet). 

Chelsea Green publisher offers a huge array of books needed by permaculturists and natural farmers and gardeners, mostly newly published works that reflect the latest research on many subjects.

Chelsea Green Publishing
 
I put together collections of online references, information and bibliographies in my website at the site of the host of this list, ibiblio.
You might be interested in browsing through some of this. I need to revise my web pages because my site is in a Linux filesystem and some of the URLs don't work because of broken symbolic links. 
I have been needing to do this for a while. Some links work, some don't. You may find some real jewels in there. I usually do when I browse the message archives or log into my website.

Here is a starting point at Google sites: https://sites.google.com/site/biointensivefarming/
and my website at ibiblio

All of this material is prehistoric.
A small sample with ancient and timeless references:

Core agricultural reading: results (a nice little bibliography someone submitted to SANET-MG)
------------------
Brady,N.C. and R. R. Weil. 1996. THE NATURE AND PROPERTIES OF SOILS, 11TH
ED. Prentice Hall, Upper Saddle River, N.J. 740p.

This is an ecologically-oriented revision of the book that has been the 
standard treatise on soils since the 1920s. The most authoritative book on
all aspects of sustainable soil management.  With lots of illustrations,
references and  diagrams, the book is still very readable for the average
person with a good high school education in basic science. Includes
extensive information on soil organic matter management, soil life and ecology,
organic and inorganic fertilizer materials, composting, soil quality, soil
profiles, soil conservation, water management, tilth, and the like.

Magdoff, Fred. 1992. BUILDING BETTER SOILS FOR BETTER CROPS. University of
Nebraska Press. 176 p

[]
I will revise and update my website as soon as possible. There are large collections of bibliographic references there.
Many refer to books that have gone out of print but would now be in libraries or available from used book sellers.


Greetings from Germany
Christian Skiba

It is great to hear from you and thanks for your input. I am in Chapel Hill, NC, USA, home of the University of North Carolina
where this list's host site is located, ibiblio. I will continue to post things of interest that I run across to this list.

I hope everyone else still reading this forum is thriving and still practicing permaculture. I am continually grateful for the work Scott Pittman did and especially the contributions he made to this list.

Lawrence London
 


Am 02.08.2025 um 03:10 schrieb Lawrence London:
Suggestions for an open permaculture curriculum list to use for guided self education
Question: "I'm not interested in risking the price of tuition on a university education, and I doubt that I'm alone in that. So I'd like to gather a list of books, videos, 
and audio recordings that'll constitute a fundamental education in permaculture, including areas of mechanical and structural engineering that should be applicable 
to permaculture design. Any suggestions? So far I've begun with Tree Crops by Russell Smith and Barefoot Architect by Johan van Lengen."
[]

There's a great Bill Mollison lecture series here from the early 90's.

I would also recommend going back to the primary systems theory texts that inspired mollison and holmgren.Howard Odum's 'Environment, Power and Society', Limits to Growth, Donella Meadows Thinking in Systems.

There's a short talk here by Odum's brother Eugene which explains many of these concepts.

There's also the Systems Dynamics course at MIT open courseware

This course by Odum's grad student Charles Hall is also pretty good. He's a bit abrasive at times and you should skip the first lecture but overall the course is quite relevant. He also has a book Energy and the Wealth of Nations.

Yale course has two relevant course to permaculture. This course on population is quite important in understanding how population can drive ecological crisis. And there is a basic ecology course that is useful if you haven't taken this stuff before.

It's also worth digging into the complex systems and sustainability literature. These two conferences are quite good for that. As well look into the Santa Fe Institutes Ulam lecture series.

This Elaine Ingham lecture series on soil science is also great.

I'd also highly recommend looking at some of the work of Elinor Ostrum. She's quite important in the sustainability literature and her frameworks are very useful in thinking about and designing social ecological systems.

Another suggestion would be to form a reading group to read through the designer's manual while watching either the mollison lectures i linked to or the one from the 1983 lectures that you can find in torrent packs. Have everyone pick a chapter of the designers manual and do more research so that they can facilitate that chapter and direct discussion. I would also strongly recommend you read the designer's manual in conjunction with the lectures because the designer's manual is better as a reference than as primary material. I think that doing a directed reading with videos in a group setting would get you pretty close to what you would get out of a PDC. The group aspect is important because you need to have a network people with whom you have a common language and are thinking in whole systems to start building many of these projects. Having a network of permaculture folks around is one of the big benefits of a pdc and you won't get that with self study.

[]

Good beginning. Next, read, watch and listen to anything you can find of Bill Mollison. That means, read Permaculture One and Two, and Permaculture: A Designer's Manual. 

The latter is the 'bible' and is worth reading, and necessary to read, several times. You can find most of the above as torrents on The Pirate Bay. Also, watch the entire recorded 

Permaculture Design Certificate courses, available on The Pirate Bay. In fact, that might be a good place to start; i.e., with the lectures. Watch the film, The Global Gardener, 

available on YouTube. Subscribe via RSS feed to the many Permaculture websites you can find from a Google search. Read the transcripts and listen to the interviews of 

Bill Mollison, Geoff Lawton, and David Holmgen, available on the Internet. Take a PDC from a good teacher if you can afford it. Volunteer as a WOOFer or join a local group for practical experience.

[]




--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com







--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com







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