permaculture

[Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>]

Because "Left" activists in this list waged war with me for no reason and
it got nasty and dragged the list down. I always thought that The Left, as
top priority, defended and supported the underdog, the oppressed,
disenfranchised, minorities, racial equality and racial harmony and those
invaded and made war on for no reason. I always had a rosy view of
Socialism. I still think that elements of Socialist systems should be
incorporated into permaculture community design to produce robustly
functional systems serving people for generations. I still believe this. I
thought that they were the people to fall back on for support when all
others abandoned people at risk. I know these people exist. Here, these
German  leftists refuse to show solidarity with Ukraine in spite of the
genocide carried out on those people by Russia. This is beyond belief.
Leftists as I see them in these times, with some exceptions, are anti
capitalists, anti imperialists and favor ideology (their alone) over the
substance of survival, helping people find the means to provide shelter,
food, basic amenities for themselves. The Left should be closely aligned
with real environmentalists, permaculturists, natural farmers and other
community-oriented professionals, tradesmen and workers. Substance of
survival over ideology. But no, it's all about making big changes at "the
top", conning those interested in their politics into votes or donations.

Wagenknecht wing of the German "Left" party wants to remove solidarity
statement for Ukraine from lead proposal : UkrainianConflict
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/wagenknecht_wing_of_the_german_left_party_wants/

Leitantrag zum Linken-Parteitag Wagenknecht-Lager will
Solidaritätsbekundung mit Ukraine streichen
Vor dem Linken-Parteitag zeichnet sich nach SPIEGEL-Informationen eine
harte Auseinandersetzung über den Umgang mit Russland ab. Eine Gruppe um
Sahra Wagenknecht will entscheidende Passagen des Leitantrags tilgen.
Von Timo Lehmann
15.06.2022, 17.41 Uhr
COMMENTS
Firm-Seaworthiness86 <https://www.reddit.com/user/Firm-Seaworthiness86/>
· 8 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icloq0v/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>
· edited 7 hr. ago

Yeah, when these people claim to be Marxist, they really mean they are
Bolsheviks. And really in actuality they are Stalinists. As long as you
hate the west, you don't need to have any other moral compass. USSR good.
Anything to the right of full Authoritarian collectivization bad. Someone
needs to remind them that the biggest oppressor of marxists and socialists
was the Communist party of Russia.

You know when Noam Chomsly starts applauding Donald Trumps appeasement of
Putin, things have gone of the rails.

Not a fan of Lenin and his revolution, but one of his pet peeves was
Russian dominance over the other smaller states. One of his dying fears was
Stalin making Russia the main power in the USSR. Which of course he did.

A lot of people across the political spectrum are showing thier moral
scruples, both for good and bad. I for one can't believe I'm liking BoJo"s
foreign policy or giving Mitt Romney credit, but there it is.

befigue <https://www.reddit.com/user/befigue/>
· 2 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icn0i36/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

Far left is against “establishment” even if establishment means liberal
democracy. For many people, politics is a game of power more than values.
People who support authoritarian regimes be it left or right have a lot in
common
cito <https://www.reddit.com/user/cito/>
Op · 8 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icliuz7/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

TLDR: German "Linke" (left) party is split over its position towards
Russia. They always were extreme Putinverstehers, but now some want to
change their position and declare solidarity with Ukraine. The wing around
Sarah Wagenknecht (the "Wagenknechte", a play on words - knechte =
servants) tries to prevent that and stay loyal to the Kremlin.

Btw, the far-right AfD party in Germany has a similar problem
<https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/afd-ukraine-krieg-russland-100.html>
.
DJHellduck <https://www.reddit.com/user/DJHellduck/>
· 6 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icm11pa/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

We all have these people, not just Germany. For instance, a major part of
the Norwegian marxist-leninist party (Rødt, represented in parliament)
actively embrace and propagate Russian talking points, with the
de-nazification and everything. After it became clear that Sweden and
Finland were seeking admittance into NATO, the socialist left party (SV, a
supporting party for the current government) doubled down on their
traditional hatred for the alliance, seeking to withdraw us from it.

It probably comes from a combination of historical affiliation with the
soviet union, and a knee-jerk reflex of being contrarian.
ZPortsie <https://www.reddit.com/user/ZPortsie/>
· 6 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icm2c5o/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

It's weird that the "Left" parties are apologists in Europe but it's the
"Right" parties in America
cito <https://www.reddit.com/user/cito/>
Op · 6 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icm5nj8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

The far-right parties in Europe are Putin apologists as well. Many of them
have been paid and supported by the Kremlin for years, because they are a
means for Putin to destroy democracy, liberalism and unity in Europe.

EwaldvonKleist <https://www.reddit.com/user/EwaldvonKleist/>
· 4 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icmkifo/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

This makes no sense whatsoever and shows that Wagenknecht&Allies have lost
their political and moral compass. Other than for historic reasons, Indon't
get the Linke's sympathy for Russia. The party's goals are social equality,
progressive gender policies, antiracism, antifascism, pacifism. Russia has
state capitalism without rule of law so rich people can bribe their way
out, is openly homophobic and sexist, accepts racist members in its
Gouvernement (like Rogozin, head of Roscosmos), uses the fascist toolkit of
maintaini g power and is as pacifist as warlord.

The only, butbreally the only commonality between them is that both Russia
and the Linke dislike, or even hate, America.
cito <https://www.reddit.com/user/cito/>
Op · 4 hr. ago
<https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/vdpip0/comment/icmn54n/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3>

This makes no sense whatsoever and shows that Wagenknecht&Allies have lost
their political and moral compass.

Wagenknecht and her friends were *always* like that, they also didn't
condemn the annexation of Crimea. One of the reasons is that the left wing
politicians have roots in the past from cooperating with Russia. They
always sided with the USSR and were anti-American because it was communism
vs capitalism. They were also against NATO and armament of the West under
the guise of pacifism. Of course they never protested against armament of
the USSR. The left wing parties in Germany were also supported financially
and trained by the USSR. The left wing party in East Germany is essentially
a successor of the communist party of the former GDR. Most of them are very
dogmatic and inflexible, they simply do not understand that times have
changed, that Soviet Union != Russia and that Putin' Russia != communism,
that the world has changed. It's a bit similar with the SPD party and
Germany in general. They confuse Soviet Union with Russia, e.g. have
feeling of guilt towards Russia because of WW2, but not towards Ukraine
which was a victim of Germany as well. But in their mind, like in the minds
of Russians, Ukraine never really existed as an entity of its own.