permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

Thanks SR, again for bringing this up...It is a worthwhile topic to discuss
/ develop / debate. As SR suggests the contextuality or the diversity
needed in interpreting understanding and evolving all the possible values
through Social Permaculture are as diverse as what we have attempted to do
in the physical landscapes we of the PC world have. But as some long
standing PDC teachers have mentioned of their students
 "they just don't get it" mainly due to the fact most are just wanting
recipes of methodology rather than realising PC is all about Ethics from a
set of Principles and is a Design Philosphy..not a recipe book. Steve Hart
Kia ora Ehoa

*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*

Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology via Ecological Agriculture..


*Skype: tipenemanawaPhone: +64 220 75 62 11*



The Permaculture International College
https://permacultureeducation.com/
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
In association with www.organicag.co.nz & bdmax.co.nz
*I*




On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 at 22:04, Permaculture Francophone <
steveread002@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why did I post it? The answers are simple.
>
>    - We've spent years convincing the general public in FRance that
>    permaculture isn't about raised bed gardening. The trend in social
>    permaculture is going towards a monoculture of a few and limited 
> techniques
>    and strategies.
>    - Over here we often get the impression that nobody in the English
>    speaking world is aware of the fact that the evolution of PmC in France 
> is
>    quite advanced.
>
> We are passing into a new phase with the development of PmC in this
> country, Now that we have succeded in making permaculture an "almost"
> household word we are developing the social reconstruction aspects. It
> seems that a lot of people are interested in permaculture and its
> application to village, town, bio-region reconstruction.
>
> Thanks for reading it by the way!
>
> Steve
>
> Le mar. 28 août 2018 à 02:54, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 7:31 PM Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> THANKS  Sandra....firstly to answer your question* "** what sparked your
>>> mail to the mailinglist - what made you write in the first
>>> place?".*..primarily
>>> Sandra to stimulate such debate in the subject, or any for that matter.
>>> Lawrence London tries to throw a topic in now and again. But, it falls on
>>> deaf ears, or complacency or what I don't know.
>>
>>
>> LL here: I am as interested in Permaculture now as ever before, maybe
>> even more that in the past. At least my understanding of it
>> is broader and deeper now.
>>
>> Seeing the world through the lens of permaculture.
>> The only limit to a permaculture design is any limitation to the
>> imagination of the designer.
>>
>> I like these two principles.
>> I also like the work of Alan Chadwick. I have posted notices about the
>> new website displaying his knowledge, lectures, photos, books, thoughts and
>> writings.
>>
>> Anyway I really enjoy any and all discussion, including Steve trying to
>> unscrew the inscrutable.
>> So bring it on. I will spend time developing my responses to any
>> discussion initiated.
>>
>> There is a need to keep the permaculture mindset alive in past, present
>> and future communities.
>> Use the web interface, lists, forums t the max. It is an easy,
>> inexpensive and effective way for us to communicate.
>>
>> Steve?
>>
>> LL
>>
>>
>>> Not even Leo replies
>>> anymore. Is everyone completely happy with every topic or is everyone
>>> just
>>> too busy or burnt out trying to survive. Or does everyone already know
>>> everything ? I guess I enjoy the intellectual rigour,  the debate, the
>>> exploration of thought and thinking and I sleep only 4 hrs a day too.
>>>
>>> To be engaged, to me assists in our development and our understanding of
>>> all systems that come to us, or pass us by, through Permaculture. We
>>> never
>>> stop learning and there are many teachers out there. In fact we are all
>>> teachers and are all students too.
>>>
>>> On the subject itself here is a link that opens up more debate and points
>>> the finger squarely at Species Man..
>>> https://futureprimitive.org/2018/08/insights-from-biosphere-2/ So we do
>>> have a lot of work to do. And..its greatfully exciting to hear of the
>>> many
>>> projects and models popping up everywhere. I'm enjoying Ctrl-Shift Summit
>>> 2018
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/CTRLshiftsummit/permalink/1415063151971182/
>>>
>>> some great stuff appearing there.
>>>
>>> Also its great to see Steve Read offering topic to discuss.
>>>
>>> What other topics need discussion / debate / arguing / Sandra ?
>>>
>>> Warm regards
>>>
>>>
>>> PS..Martina has No 4 due soon
>>>
>>> *Steve Hart*
>>> *Ecology Architect*
>>>
>>> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
>>> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
>>> and Systems Ecology via Ecological Agriculture..
>>>
>>>
>>> *Skype: tipenemanawaPhone: +64 220 75 62 11*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Permaculture International College
>>> https://permacultureeducation.com/
>>> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>>> In association with www.organicag.co.nz & bdmax.co.nz
>>> *I*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 at 21:22, Joel Campe <
>>> j.campe@permakultur-akademie.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi Steve,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > thank you for your thoughts and experiences, to which I can relate and
>>> > agree completely and I guess and hope that most permaculturists that
>>> are
>>> > working a lot with people would agree, too.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I am wondering what sparked your mail to the mailinglist - what made
>>> you
>>> > write in the first place? :-)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Best wishes,
>>> >
>>> > Sandra-Joel
>>> >
>>> > Am 22.08.2018 um 02:39 schrieb Steve Hart:
>>> >
>>> > Totally agree Steve Read...and great to see such comments to share and
>>> > hopefully debate. Yes, as great a contribution we have made to the
>>> world so
>>> > far we still have a long way to go. The whole Social Permaculture
>>> sphere
>>> > opens up a number of dimensions. I have begun working with a PC friend
>>> who
>>> > is developing the trainings and offers of "Human Design" . I have found
>>> > these helpful to assist in many situations. But, the whole arena of
>>> working
>>> > with other cultures remains a challenge. I find myself doing a lot of
>>> > observation, then a lot of assumption. But, often there are hidden
>>> elements
>>> > to trip one up. Its great to see more Advanced PDCs of specific topic
>>> > appearing. The learning never stops. Best regards Steve Hart
>>> >
>>> > Kia ora Ehoa
>>> >
>>> > *Steve Hart*
>>> > *Ecology Architect*
>>> >
>>> > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
>>> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
>>> Architecture
>>> > and Systems Ecology via Ecological Agriculture..
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *Skype: tipenemanawa Phone: +64 220 75 62 11*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The Permaculture International College
>>> > https://permacultureeducation.com/
>>> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>>> > In association with www.organicag.co.nz & bdmax.co.nz
>>> > *I*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 22 August 2018 at 07:20, Alan Enzo <ecoenzo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> The signup page for the European Permaculture Network is broken.
>>> >> https://permaculture-network.eu/eupn-registration/
>>> >>
>>> >> Please let me know where I can go to enter in an email address to be
>>> >> added to this list.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you,
>>> >>
>>> >> Alan Enzo
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM Monika Frank <monika_pk@hotmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Hi Steve,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> thank you very much for this text.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> will contact you soon on behalf of the centres de formation et
>>> >>> demonstration.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> hug,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Monika
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ------------------------------
>>> >>> *Von:* europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com <
>>> >>> europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com> im Auftrag von
>>> >>> Permaculture Francophone <steveread002@gmail.com>
>>> >>> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 21. August 2018 14:53
>>> >>> *An:* europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com
>>> >>> *Betreff:* [eu-pc-network] Peoplecare and contextuality
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Whats the most fashionable thing about permaculture where you are?
>>> >>> Forest gardens? Herb spirals? Raised beds?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Here in France its the latter. Now people are getting very exited
>>> about
>>> >>> "la permaculture humaine". Human permaculture, yes a tautology but
>>> >>> "peoplecare" works out as "prendre soin de l'être humain". And that
>>> looks
>>> >>> less good on a T shirt or book cover.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Peoplecare is widely talked about in different countries and
>>> >>> unfortunately has taken the same fashionista path as the
>>> >>> gardening/agricultural aspects of permaculture.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So what are the problems?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>    - Lack of understanding. People love herb spirals but don't
>>> >>>    understand what they are for nor where they would best be
>>> installed. I have
>>> >>>    a 7 ha farm, I don't need a herb spiral. Where I work in Tunisia
>>> anything
>>> >>>    raised up, like a herb spiral or potato tower simply dries out.
>>> People care
>>> >>>    is going the same way. Non-violent communication, consensus,
>>> sociocracy
>>> >>>    have become a sort of mono-cultural norm for PmC peoplcare and
>>> social
>>> >>>    permaculture.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>    - Lack of contextuality. This is probably worst sin that can be
>>> >>>    committed by a permaculture designer. Everything depends on the
>>> context,
>>> >>>    from farming techniques to social organisation strategies. What
>>> works here
>>> >>>    won't work there. People in general and especially permaculture
>>> designers
>>> >>>    most really take this on board. I work in several different
>>> countries and
>>> >>>    that means I work in several different cultures. It beholds me to
>>> really
>>> >>>    observe the people that I work with and how their culture
>>> operates. This is
>>> >>>    a fascinating part of our work and sometimes/often tiny
>>> differences emerge
>>> >>>    that, like that famous butterfly, can have huge consequences on
>>> the
>>> >>>    development of a project.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>    - Binary thinking. Years of research in neuropsychology, social
>>> >>>    biology, anthropology have shown that only very special cases
>>> show any
>>> >>>    binarity. For the vast majority we have to think in terms of
>>> continuums.
>>> >>>    Men/women, conservative/liberal, north/south ..... The woman/man
>>> dichotomy
>>> >>>    is a particularly good example of how not to analyse a group. For
>>> >>>    the vast majority of abilities most human beings group around an
>>> average
>>> >>>    competence with some individuals either very good or very poor at
>>> >>>    accomplishing certain tasks. (In this context a special case is
>>> that
>>> >>>    most women (XX) can give birth, we haven't yet found a man (XY)
>>> who can.
>>> >>>    The continuum kicks in again though as one person in 1,666 are
>>> neither  XX
>>> >>>    nor XY, (plus Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000, births Androgen
>>> insensitivity
>>> >>>    syndrome one in 13,000 births, Partial androgen insensitivity
>>> syndrome one
>>> >>>    in 130,000 births ... etc)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So where does this lead us? The knowledge sets needed to be a
>>> competent
>>> >>> permaculture designer working with growing systems is wide and
>>> various, the
>>> >>> same is true with social permaculture and peoplecare. As a designer
>>> with 30
>>> >>> years of experience my social permaculture skill set includes
>>> >>> neuropsychology, social anthroplogy, history, nutrition and social
>>> biology.
>>> >>> These branches of science give us important information about the
>>> nature(s)
>>> >>> of human beings that are essential if we want to create viable and
>>> durable
>>> >>> human societies. These knowledge sets then need to be complemented
>>> with
>>> >>> knowledge about human systems. Economics, architecture, energy
>>> production
>>> >>> and more.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Too often people are presented with solutions that are
>>> non-contextual,
>>> >>> overly simplistic, based on out-dated science (or research paid for
>>> by
>>> >>> Industry) or just downright lies. As permaculture designers we are
>>> faced
>>> >>> with a cunundrum, we work to design and build complex and durable
>>> systems.
>>> >>> The difficulty is that faced with a choice between simplistic
>>> >>> explanations/solutions and complex explanations/solutions it is much
>>> easier
>>> >>> for people to accept the former. (This is one of the reasons for the
>>> lack
>>> >>> of massive adoption of permaculture by people. We have made enormous
>>> >>> strides but as the world starts to burn there is much left to do.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When I run permaculture courses my most frequent response to a
>>> question
>>> >>> is "it depends on the context". I will then go on to give examples of
>>> >>> different approaches but always with the same caveat, "this worked
>>> here, it
>>> >>> might work there but will probably need to be adapted". Not a
>>> message that
>>> >>> is easy for people to absorb. Luckily we have the principles
>>> elucidated by
>>> >>> Mollison and then re-interpreted by Homgren. I continually bring
>>> everything
>>> >>> back to them. Clear guiding principals well explained help people
>>> absorb
>>> >>> the art and science of permaculture. It also encourages them to
>>> understand
>>> >>> before acting.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So back to social permaculture, there is no "one size fits all".
>>> People
>>> >>> from countries based on rice cultivation engage automatically with
>>> the
>>> >>> context within "something" is to be found. The opposite is true of
>>> wheat
>>> >>> cultivating people who fix on the "something" itself and much less
>>> on the
>>> >>> context. And of course thats binary, in truth its a continuum and
>>> depends
>>> >>> on the indivduals, at the same time it is generally true. People in
>>> China
>>> >>> have a different way of looking at the world as compared to people
>>> in say
>>> >>> Sweden. A social permaculture approach that works in China may well
>>> be the
>>> >>> opposite of what can be accepted by a Swede. Its a good thing that
>>> we in
>>> >>> the permaculture world love diversity so much.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Peoplecare is also about our bodies, and of course those of others.
>>> Its
>>> >>> no good me running an amazing farm that "earthcares" if at the same
>>> time it
>>> >>> reduces me to a groaning mass of aches and pains. Ergonomy can help
>>> us
>>> >>> design production systems that look after our bodies and
>>> neuropsychology
>>> >>> when applied to (people centered) architecture can help us design
>>> buildings
>>> >>> that encourage good health.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Complexity, contextuality, non-linearity, non-binarity key concepts
>>> at
>>> >>> the heart of many scientific researchers and many permaculteurs.
>>> Which is a
>>> >>> good thing.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Steve
>>> >>>
>>> >>> #permaculture
>>> >>> #social permaculture
>>> >>> #peoplecare
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> https://steveread.wixsite.com/steveread/blog
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> for updates on the EuPN, also follow: permaculture-network.eu!
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>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Alan Enzo
>>> >> *Illegitimi non carborundum*
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> for updates on the EuPN, also follow: permaculture-network.eu!
>>> >> ---
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> > ---
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Joel Campe
>>> > Weiterbildungsteam // Diploma team at Permakultur Akademie
>>> >
>>> > Sieben Linden 1
>>> > 38489 Beetzendorf (Poppau)
>>> > Germany
>>> >
>>> > +49-(0)39000-905923
>>> > +49-(0)1577-3903157
>>> > skype: xcampe.sinax
>>> > __________________________
>>> >
>>> > PERMAKULTUR AKADEMIE
>>> >
>>> > Im Garten 11
>>> > 51503 Hoffnungsthal
>>> >
>>> > Tel: 02205-9198383info@permakultur.dewww.permakultur.de
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
>> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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