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  • From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: [growingsmallfarms] Fw: NOSB Organic Vote Update- for hydrponic and Aquaponic producers
  • Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 21:54:25 -0400

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

> LL et al
>
>
I meant to Cc you with this post but forgot.

The solution is simple. Set up an independent entity. Do not stay a member
>

I have said for years that we need to create a new, alternative economy, a
new financial stream,
self-managed, self regulated but within existing legal structures.

of the governments structures and corruptions. Create a new one. A totally
> independent entity with stronger standards. Not weaker ones. BioGro New
> Zealand is a good example of exactly this.
>
> Good for them.

We are now trying to preserve what we have with the USDA NOP/NOSB, i.e. the
national organic standards program and associated certification and
labelling.
We don't want it corrupted by special interests that would compromise those
standards for windfall profit for those corporate interests they represent.
We also want to implement the new Regenerative Organic Certification
program that Rodale and other long standing pioneers, visionaries and
experts have proposed.

We all need to get on board this effort to save quality natural food
produced by systems of organic agriculture.

LL

Steve Hart
>
> On 28 September 2017 at 12:04, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Have you seen this news about an assault on the USDA organic program by
> > hydroponics and confined livestock special interests?
> > <>
> >
> > The Final Meeting
> >
> > As we approach the November meeting of the NOSB in Jacksonville, we are
> > engaged in the great organic debate of our time. Can the National Organic
> > Program (NOP) serve the organic community? Can the NOP protect and
> preserve
> > strong standards that reflect the beliefs of real organic? Can the
> National
> > Organic Program reclaim integrity?
> >
> > The NOP is beset by news reports of its failures and compromises. It
> > appears that we can’t trust that the milk, meat and eggs that we buy as
> > certified organic. Much of this food is actually produced on confined
> > animal operations with no pasture at all. We can’t trust that the
> > "certified organic" grain that these animals are fed isn’t actually
> > conventional GMO grain. And we can't trust that the vegetable and berries
> > that we buy are actually grown in the soil. This is a massive disservice
> to
> > the honest organic farmers who have embraced the practices known as
> organic
> > for the last 75 years. This is also a failure of the USDA program to
> > protect the millions of trusting eaters who choose to spend their hard
> > earned money on “certified organic” food.
> > One of the largest “organic” egg operations in the United States keeps
> 1.6
> > million hens.
> > This November the NOSB (National Organic Standards Board) will finally
> vote
> > (AGAIN) on a proposal to prohibit hydroponics from certification. In the
> > meantime, hydroponic vegetables and berries continue to pose as soil
> grown
> > organic produce. There are no standards for hydroponic production, and
> > there is no labeling. Go to any supermarket in NYC at the height of the
> > local outdoor tomato season, and you will only find hydroponic beefsteak
> > tomatoes, mostly from Mexico, in the organic section. There will be no
> sign
> > warning the customers that this Fauxganic food was grown without soil.
> >
> > And so we are in a final battle for the soul of the organic label. The
> real
> > organic movement is still strong. Most certified organic farmers are real
> > organic. But we can no longer say that most "certified organic" products
> > are real organic. Miles McEvoy has said that three-quarters of the
> > "certified organic" eggs will be decertified if the animal welfare reform
> > standards are ever implemented! Miles wants those reforms to be enacted
> as
> > much as the rest of us. But that won’t happen, because the Trump USDA and
> > the Senate don’t want it to happen. The two most powerful Senators on the
> > Senate Ag committee, Roberts and Stabenow, are strongly opposed to the
> > animal welfare reform standards. That is because the two biggest
> Fauxganic
> > egg producers in the country are their constituents.
> > Theo Crisantes testifies to the Senate Ag Committee for the Hydro
> > Coalition, calling for the deformation of the NOSB.
> >
> >
> > And as I wrote in my last letter, (Hydro Declares War On Organic
> > <http://www.keepthesoilinorganic.org/> ) the hydroponic lobby recently
> > made
> > common cause with the CAFO (Contained Animal Feeding Operations)
> producers
> > in their Senate testimony. The Coalition called for the "reformation" of
> > the NOSB with 5 additional seats dedicated to representing industrial Ag
> > interests. As if the industrial interests weren’t already well
> > represented! Welcome
> > to Walganic. They also say it is time for the NOP to stop paying
> attention
> > to “outlier issues” like animal welfare. In this time of Trump, taking
> over
> > the NOSB seems quite possible. Roberts hopes to make these changes as
> part
> > of the next Farm Bill.
> >
> > Perhaps the only way we can stop this destruction of something precious
> is
> > to stand together and speak with one voice. We must say YES to fertile
> soil
> > as the foundation of all organic farming. We must say YES that animals
> > deserve access to sun and soil.
> >
> > We must say NO to hydroponics and CAFOS. We must say NO to fraud from
> some
> > of the biggest producers in the world. Who gives them a pass? How is it
> > that a single reporter from the Washington Post can clearly document so
> > much fraud on such a massive scale while the NOP cannot? Why does it take
> > endless task forces and studies to act, when a single reporter has shown
> > how easy it is to find the truth?
> > Driscoll's sells over 1000 acres of Fauxganic berries like these.
> >
> > I especially want to address this letter to the many members of the
> > California Certified Organic Farmers (CCOF) and the Organic Trade
> > Association (OTA). I wrote a private letter to the board of OTA last
> year,
> > but my letter was never shared with the board by their leadership. So I
> > will try a more public approach. If you know a member of one of these
> > organizations, please forward this to them.
> >
> > When I sent out my last public letter, I got a tremendous amount of
> > positive feedback, including strong support from board members of each
> > organization. They agreed with all I said but insisted that I got one
> thing
> > wrong. They said that both CCOF and OTA were neutral on the hydroponic
> > issue.
> > Phil LaRocca, President of CCOF.
> >
> > It is important to understand that this is simply not true. At the last
> > NOSB meeting, Phil LaRocca, identifying himself as the President of CCOF,
> > said, “I’m speaking here in favor of organic hydroponics with two
> caveats.
> > One, we should create standards that are strict with 100% organic inputs,
> > and two, that we should label it.” This is not a neutral stance, and it
> > was not presented as a personal opinion. His comments were further
> > supported by the testimony of CCOF Policy Director Kelly Damewood. I
> > consider Phil a friend, but we disagree mightily on this.
> > Speaking for OTA, Nate Lewis responded to a question from NOSB member
> Steve
> > Ela:
> >
> > MEMBER ELA: "Where would you draw the line between hydroponics and
> > containers?"
> >
> > MR. LEWIS: "I've done a lot of thinking on that. It's challenging but
> where
> > I would draw the line is on what's the matrix in which the biology lives.
> > Is the biology that is ultimately cycling the nutrients and bringing
> things
> > to, making them available to plants in suspension, in solution, or is it
> > living in a solid matrix? And if it's living in a solid matrix, like it
> is
> > in a container production, you know, 2010 recommendation was that that
> > should be allowed, and we continue to think that that should be allowed."
> >
> >
> > OTA Senior Crop And Livestock Specialist Nate Lewis testifying to the
> NOSB.
> >
> >
> > Nate is ignoring the heart of the 2010 recommendation, which says,
> > "Observing the framework of organic farming based on its foundation of
> > sound management of soil biology and ecology, it becomes clear that
> > *systems
> > of crop production that eliminate soil from the system, such as
> hydroponics
> > or aeroponics, can not be considered as examples of acceptable organic
> > farming practices."*
> >
> > OTA's position is that if the hydroponic feeding takes place when the
> roots
> > are in a solid medium like coconut husks, it isn’t hydroponic anymore.
> > Magic! This statement is in accord with all OTA public comments for the
> > last year. They repeatedly insist that they support the 2010 NOSB
> > recommendation banning hydroponics. Then they insist that the growing
> > practices of their two biggest hydroponic members, Driscoll’s and
> Wholesum
> > Harvest, are NOT hydroponic because they grow in coconut husks instead of
> > in water.
> >
> > All of the hydroponic tomatoes, berries, cucumbers, and peppers in
> > conventional hydroponics are grown in containers with the roots in
> coconut
> > husks or rockwool. Rockwool is like fiberglass insulation. Many
> > conventional hydro producers now prefer growing in coconut husks (called
> > coco coir) because coir is so recalcitrant that it breaks down VERY
> slowly.
> > That is why they have mountains of the stuff on Sri Lanka. It is very
> > resistant to fungal breakdown, much like cedar shavings. It makes a
> > marvelous substrate for hydroponic production for this reason. The same
> > material can be used in hydro production for years due to its antifungal
> > qualities. It has been rapidly overtaking rockwool around the world as
> the
> > preferred hydroponic substrate. Conventional growers like it because it
> > doesn’t break down (and thus *doesn’t contribute anything to the
> nutrition
> > of the plant*). It looks like soil, but it ain’t soil.
> >
> > The OTA position is purposely misleading because the leadership
> understands
> > all this very well. The OTA stance is that this is much too complicated
> for
> > us to understand so quickly (only 7 years of study since the last
> > recommendation). Thus they conclude it requires years MORE study. And
> > hopefully another task force!
> >
> > It IS difficult to understand when so much misinformation is being put
> out.
> > These positions are calculated to postpone a decision on hydroponics
> > forever. After all, who wants to stand up in the NOSB meeting and vote
> that
> > fertile soil is not the foundation of organic farming? OTA is seeking to
> > confuse this issue in an effort to support two of their members. But at
> > what cost to the rest of their members!
> >
> > How does it serve the OTA membership to destroy the integrity of the
> > organic brand? *The damage being done to the National Organic Program by
> > their defense of hydroponics is incalculable.* OTA is serving the rest of
> > their members very poorly by fighting to defend two big members.
> > .
> >
> > Hydroponic tomatoes grown at Wholesum Harvest.
> >
> > I bring these points up at such length because OTA and CCOF are the big
> > dogs in the room. If the Organic Trade Association ACTUALLY supported the
> > 2010 NOSB recommendation, they would embrace the latest Crops
> Subcommittee
> > proposal. It allows container growing, but insists that most of the
> > fertility for the plant must still be supplied by the soil in that
> > container. It is in complete alignment with the language and intent of
> the
> > 2010 Recommendation. It clarifies the one significant point that the 2010
> > recommendation left unclear. *And if OTA did support the proposal, it
> would
> > pass easily.*
> >
> > But they won’t….
> >
> > So I ask all the members of OTA and CCOF to really consider if the
> > leadership speaks for you. Because the leadership is leading you off a
> > cliff. The erosion of real standards is going to destroy the National
> > Organic Program. The organic community is not going to accept
> hydroponics,
> > and they are not going to accept CAFOs. And if the organic standards DO
> > accept Hydros and CAFOs, then the organic community is going to leave the
> > National Organic Program. *What happens to the organic label without the
> > organic movement?*
> > Thetford, Vermont Rally in the Valley in 2016, listening to Senator
> > Patrick Leahy and NOFA VT Director Enid Wonnacott.
> >
> > The only reason that the organic label is continuing to grow so quickly
> in
> > sales is because people haven’t yet learned what is going on.
> >
> > But they will….
> >
> > Going forward, there is no more neutrality. Being neutral at this point
> > means allowing Hydros and CAFOs. They are now the status quo. They are
> > the New Organic. A vote to delay in Jacksonville is a vote for Hydro. It
> is
> > that simple. Many of us have spent our lives supporting the organic
> > movement. We are now making every effort to save it, before we are forced
> > to leave it.
> >
> > It doesn’t matter if I speak up on this or not. The truth is going to
> come
> > out. I have been accused by one CCOF leader of shooting organic in the
> > foot. By telling the truth. Surely we want to tell the truth. But we need
> > everybody.
> > Farmer Pete Johnson talking about what the future of organic means to his
> > daughter.
> >
> > There is a series of Keep The Soil Rallies coming in the next 7 weeks. We
> > have commitments for 17 Rallies so far, from California to Maine, and
> from
> > Canada to Costa Rica. Perhaps there will be more, perhaps less, but there
> > will be many people coming together to express their support for real
> > organic. Some will be big. Many will be small. A few will be tiny, maybe
> > only ten people. It doesn’t matter. *What matters is showing up.*
> >
> >
> > I will send out a schedule soon. If you are willing to organize a Rally,
> > however small, please contact me. Call some friends make a few signs, and
> > march around the block. Talk about the issues. If you want to attend a
> > Rally organized by others, go to Keepthesoilinorganic.org for an ongoing
> > schedule. Please remember that we are a small grassroots group, with
> little
> > funding and no staff. We don’t even have a name, let alone dues! We are
> > doing a lot with very little. We see the Rallies as our last chance to
> send
> > a signal to the NOSB. They need to pass the compromise proposal, that
> will
> > be so fiercely attacked by the Hydro lobby. They need to stop delaying
> and
> > take a stand.
> >
> > *No vote is a vote for Hydro.*
> > If you can’t make it to an earlier Rally, come to the final Rally at
> > Jacksonville on Tuesday, October 31. *Join organic pioneers Eliot
> Coleman,
> > Fred Kirschenmann, Jim Riddle, Lisa Stokke, Tom Beddard, Anais Beddard,
> > David Zuckerman, Jim Gerritsen, Will Allen and many other farmers and
> > eaters.* The Rally will be outside during the lunch break. And sign up
> ASAP
> > to testify to the NOSB, so you can tell them what you think.
> >
> > https://www.ams.usda.gov/event/oct-2017-national-organic-sta
> > ndards-board-nosb-meeting-registration-in-person
> >
> > If you can’t come in person, sign up for the virtual testimony.
> >
> > https://www.ams.usda.gov/event/oct-2017-national-organic-sta
> > ndards-board-nosb-meeting-registration-webinar
> >
> > You can sign up for either testifying in person or testifying online. But
> > in either case, you can also submit a written comment.
> >
> > https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=AMS_FRDOC_0001-1600
> > Once there, click the blue "comment now!" button in the top right
> corner.
> >
> > *This is very important.* We need to speak up before the organic program
> is
> > lost. This will be our last chance.
> >
> > *Please forward this letter to as many friends as possible.*
> > <>
> >
> > And something new, enhanced USDA Organic:
> >
> > <>
> > Comments:
> >
> > "This is a radical and expected way forward in order to enhance food and
> > farming systems.
> >
> > I only hope that the certification cost is accessible to small farmers"
> >
> >
> > "Rodale is a very professional and trustworthy organization with a true
> > passion for real farming as opposed to the USDA in all aspects. Corporate
> > agribusiness will not be able to do an end run around Rodale and what it
> > means to be organic, sustainable, local, and regenerative. I applaud
> them."
> > <>
> >
> > *Introducing the Regenerative Organic Certification*
> >
> > Rodale Institute has pioneered regenerative organic agriculture since our
> > founder, J.I. Rodale, wrote "Healthy Soil=Healthy Food=Healthy People"
> on a
> > chalkboard back in 1942. His son, Robert Rodale, coined the term
> > 'regenerative organic agriculture' to distinguish a kind of farming that
> > goes beyond simply 'sustainable.' To us, that always meant agriculture
> > improving the resources it uses, rather than destroying or depleting
> them.
> > It is a holistic systems approach to farming that encourages continual
> > innovation for environmental, social, and economic well-being.
> >
> > Today, we're proud to announce the new Regenerative Organic
> Certification,
> > a cooperative effort among a coalition of farmers, ranchers, nonprofits,
> > scientists, and brands, led by Rodale Institute, to establish a new,
> > high-bar standard for regenerative organic agriculture. Owned by this
> > coalition, the standard will be administered by NSF International and is
> > open to many certification partners. The standard encompasses guidelines
> > for soil health and land management, animal welfare, and farmer and
> worker
> > fairness. Regenerative Organic Certification builds upon the near
> 100-year
> > legacy of organic movement visionaries like J.I. Rodale and Dr. Rudolf
> > Steiner, and provides stepwise guidance for farming and ranching
> > operations, transportation, slaughter, and processing facilities that
> > produce food, cosmetics, and fiber.
> >
> > The goals of Regenerative Organic Certification are to increase soil
> > organic matter over time, improve animal welfare, provide economic
> > stability and fairness for farmers, ranchers, and workers, and create
> > resilient regional ecosystems and communities.
> >
> > The environmental outcomes of a systemic shift to regenerative organic
> > agricultural practices could be profound. *In 2014, research by Rodale
> > Institute estimated that if current crop acreage and pastureland shifted
> to
> > regenerative organic practices, 100% of annual global CO2 emissions could
> > be sequestered in the soil. *
> >
> > Regenerative Organic Certification does not aim to supplant current
> organic
> > standards. Instead, this certification aims to support these standards
> > while at the same time facilitate widespread adoption of holistic,
> > regenerative practices throughout agriculture. It builds upon the
> standards
> > set forth by USDA Organic and similar programs internationally,
> > particularly in the areas of animal welfare and farmer and worker
> fairness.
> > If you are interested in reviewing and commenting on the new Regenerative
> > Organic Certification requirements, *please click here to review
> > <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/group_public/document.
> php?document_id=39305
> > >*
> > and
> > contact Jessica Evans, Director of Standards Development at NSF
> > <jevans@nsf.org>. After the public comment period is complete, brands,
> > farmers, and ranchers are encouraged to embrace these practices,
> > incorporate them into their supply chains, and create a market for
> > Regenerative Organic Certified products.
> >
> > *Want to learn more? *Join Rodale Institute and Patagonia at Dr.
> Bronner's
> > booth (2419) event at Expo East this Friday, September 15 at 4:30 PM to
> > share this exciting news. Thank you for your participation in this vital
> > process.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Jeff Moyer*
> > Rodale Institute
> > Click here to review & comment on the full Regenerative Organic
> > Certification requirements
> > <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/group_public/document.
> php?document_id=39305
> > >
> > *Regenerative Organic Certificate Goals:*
> >
> > - Increase soil organic matter over time, and sequester carbon in the
> > soil
> > - Improve animal welfare
> > - Provide economic stability and fairness for farmers, ranchers, and
> > workers
> > - Create resilient regional ecosystems and communities
> >
> > *Three Pillars:*
> > *Soil Health**
> >
> > - No/low Tillage
> > - Cover Crops
> > - Crop Rotations
> > - Rotational Grazing
> > - No Synthetic Inputs
> > - No GMOs or Gene Editing
> > - Promotes Biodiversity
> > - Builds Soil Organic Matter
> > - No Soilless Systems
> >
> > ** Leverages USDA Organic, Biodynamic, etc.*
> > Social Fairness*
> >
> > - Living Wages
> > - No Child Labor
> > - No Forced Labor
> > - Maximum Working Hours
> > - Fair Pricing for Buyers/Farmers
> > - Long-Term Commitments
> >
> > ** Leverages AJP, Fair Trade, FFL, SPP, etc.*
> > *Animal Welfare**
> >
> > - Five Freedoms
> > - Grass-Fed / Pasture-Raised
> > - No CAFOs
> > - Suitable Shelter
> > - Minimize Transport Distances
> >
> > ** Leverages GAP 4+, AWA, Cert. Humane, etc.*
> >
> > *Click here for a one-pager on the new certification
> > <https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/ROC-One-Pager-9.12.17.pdf>*
> >
> > <https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/ROC-One-Pager-9.12.17.pdf>
> > Click here to review & comment on the full Regenerative Organic
> > Certification requirements
> > <http://standards.nsf.org/apps/group_public/document.
> php?document_id=39305
> > >
> > * Abridged list of contributors to the creation of Regenerative Organic
> > Certification: *
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 5:52 PM, <rachel.kulberg@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Aquaponic and Hydroponic Organic Coalition members:
> > >
> > > The NOSB Crops Subcommittee has recommended that the full NOSB vote to
> > ban
> > > ALL aquaponic production and curtail hydroponic production from organic
> > > eligibility at the Fall 2017 Meeting
> > > <https://www.ams.usda.gov/event/2017-national-organic-
> > standards-board-nosb-meeting>
> > >
> > > Page 63 of this document begings the NOSB's discussion
> > > <https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/
> > NOSBFall2017ProposalsDDTOC.pdf>.
> > >
> > >
> > > Here are the two quotes from the document:
> > >
> > > - "The Crops Subcommittee is opposed to allowing *aquaponic*
> > > production systems to be certified organic at this time. If
> > aquaculture
> > > standards are issued in the future, and concerns about food safety
> are
> > > resolved, aquaponics could be reconsidered."
> > >
> > > - "Motion that any container production system that does not meet
> the
> > > standard of a limit of 20% of the plants’ nitrogen requirement being
> > > supplied by liquid feeding, and a limit of 50% of the plants’
> nitrogen
> > > requirement being added to the container after the crop has been
> > planted is
> > > defined as *hydroponic* and should not be allowed to be certified
> > > organic. For perennials, the nitrogen feeding limit is calculated on
> > an
> > > annual basis. Transplants, ornamentals, herbs, sprouts, fodder, and
> > aquatic
> > > plants are exempted from these requirements."
> > >
> > > WE NEED TO SPEAK UP
> > >
> > > - Go to this link - NOSB Organic Comments
> > > <https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=AMS-NOP-17-0024-0001> - and
> > > write a message telling the NOSB that you believe our growing
> methods
> > > should remain organic. You can write your own message or click this
> > > link to copy and paste a generic message
> > > <http://www.aquaponicsassociation.org/organic_comment_fall_2017>.
> > >
> > > - Sign up to give a three-minute testimony at the October 24 and 26
> > > webinars
> > > <https://www.ams.usda.gov/event/oct-2017-national-
> > organic-standards-board-nosb-meeting-registration-webinar>.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Sign up to attend the Fall Meeting in person and provide in-person
> > > three-minute testimony.
> > > <https://www.ams.usda.gov/event/oct-2017-national-
> > organic-standards-board-nosb-meeting-registration-in-person>
> > >
> > > - Contact your federal congressional representatives and tell them
> you
> > > want the NOSB to retain the organic eligibility of sustainable
> growing
> > > methods like aquaponics, hydroponics, and aeroponics. Click here for
> > > language to use.
> > > <http://www.aquaponicsassociation.org/organic_comment_fall_2017>
> > Click
> > > here to enter your zip code and find your representatives.
> > > <https://www.house.gov/representatives/find/>
> > >
> > >
> > > We will prepare a full response to the NOSB document to comment on
> behalf
> > > of the Aquaponic and Hydroponic Organic Coalition.
> > >
> > > Importantly,
> > > Our friends at Bright Agrotech are looking for folks that will be
> > > directly affected if the NOSB revokes or restricts aquaponic and
> > hydroponic
> > > organic eligibility. They'd like to shine a light on individual
> stories
> > of
> > > people being affected by such a decision.
> > >
> > > They have a very big email list and platform so this could be a good
> > > opportunity for you to affect this debate.
> > >
> > > If you will be affected if the nosb revokes or restricts aquaponic or
> > > hydroponic eligibility, please let me or juan know and we'll work with
> > you
> > > to share your story.
> > >
> > > Juan: juan@brightagrotech.com
> > >
> > > -Brian Filipowich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kia ora Ehoa
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>
> The Permaculture International College
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



--
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared




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