permaculture

[<scott@permaculture.org>]

Joao, what a beautifully poetic description of your village and its 
activities.  Sounds like heaven to me but I am sure that there is a lot of 
lack and hard work between the lines of your prose.

I was reminded of a book in my library that speaks of the Elm tree as being 
part of the grape guild in Portugal.  If I remember right the Elm were 
pollarded and the grapes used them as trellis.

Thanks for sharing your life.  I am excited about visiting Portugal next week 
and presenting at Boom Festival where my subject is the dharma of 
permaculture which has a lot to say about the website rip-off you have been 
speaking of.

Scott

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: joao pedro goncalves <joaovox@gmail.com>
>  To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture in viticulture?
>  Sent: Jul 29 '16 09:34
>  
>  Location:
>  latitude 40º N Portugal
>  At Chao Sobral hamlet and in similar hamlets at our mountain range (xist
>  steep landscape)
>  near the 2000 mt high granitic Estrela range in central Portugal.
>  
>  Vines grow on the terrace retaining wall, thus soil depth is max.
>  Used to be supported by stakes sourced from nearby strawberry trees
>  (Arbutus unedo) or Castanea sativa.
>  Old stakes are used to cook at fire place or to fuel bread oven.
>  Salix pollared, cordyline australis or new zealand flax are commonly used
>  to tie after pruning.
>  Prunings are bundled, dry and fuel fire oven.
>  
>  On these terraces grow summer flood irrigated crops like corn and potatoes
>  - are harvested in August-Sept-Oct.
>  
>  Then follows a winter cover crop -sheep-goat pasture - of cereal rye,
>  usually cut for animal fodder in April-May at planting season - so, most
>  not going for cereal seed.
>  
>  Grapes are harvested in late september, with friends and all generations
>  coming togetther.
>  Wine is ready to drink after the new year.
>  
>  2 day fermented grape juice is mixed with distilled most/spirit
>  to make "jeropiga", we drink while roasting sweet chest nut
>  on a pine needles (pinus pinaster) light fire
>  at late November.
>  this fire is lit in front the chapel, after the faith duties on a sunday
>  afternoon.
>  it a community tradition, all ages together,
>  each brings whatever they like to eat and drink,
>  sometimes we play music and sing.
>  
>  it happens year after year at around St. Martin's day
>  
>  in the north they make green wine, pollared celtis autralis and maple trees
>  are used to support vines at great heights.
>  
>  biodynamic farm in Portugal, poultry used to graze under vines:
>  
>  https://www.facebook.com/quintadapalmirinha/#
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  [permaculture] Permaculture in viticulture? *Scott Pittman* scott at
>  permaculture.org
>  
> <permaculture%40lists.ibiblio.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5Bpermaculture%5D%20Permaculture%20in%20viticulture%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAD0BFAB3DECF4BB2AD9EB4CB43A558D0%40ScottPC%3E>
>  *Mon Apr 20 10:38:45 EDT 2015*
>  
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>  ------------------------------
>  
>  I read some years ago a text on viticulture in Portugal but I can't find my
>  book.  What stood out for me was that the Portuguese farmer used pollarded
>  elm as support for the grape vines.  The elm was supposed to have a
>  beneficial effect.
>  
>  If I find the book I will post the title and author, but it was a very old
>  book and I don't want to get anyone's hopes up.
>  
>  Scott P.
>  
>  "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
>  obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>  <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>] On Behalf
>  Of Sonia Ghiggioli
>  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 4:42 AM
>  To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>  <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>
>  Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture in viticulture?
>  
>  cestin <cestin at ...
>  <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>> writes:
>  
>  > >* Does anyone have any information about permaculture practices in
>  *>* viticulture?  I know that many permaculture principles of encouraging
>  *>* biodiversity and soil health make sense.  But I'm curious about more
>  *>* extensive applications - are there "guild plantings" that  might 
> enhance
>  *>* wine grape quality?  Does comfrey have a beneficial effect when planted
>  *>* near grape vines, etc...
>  *>
>  Dear Chuck,
>  
>  did you get any responses back from Australia regarding this topic. I'd 
> love
>  to know what
>  information you've discovered so I can trial it. Biodiversity and soil
>  health are
>  very important to me.
>  
>  Kind regards,
>  Sonia
>  
>  
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>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  João Gonçalves
>  
>  "Ao comprar ou consumir de forma ética também está a intervir na paisagem e
>  a decidir quem tem trabalho."
>  
>  "Eating is an agricultural act"  -  "Comer é um acto agrícola" - Wendell
>  Berry
>  
>  "Permacultura (Cultura Permanente) é um sistema ético de design ecológico."
>  
>  (+351) 96 96 80 009
>  Chão Sobral - Oliveira do Hospital - Serra do Açor - Portugal
>  http://ecotrabalho.com/
>  http://permacultureglobal.com/users/902-joao-goncalves
>  http://chaosobral.org/index_pt.htm
>  http://www.youtube.com/joaovox
>  http://agricultura-familiar-tradicional.blogspot.pt
>  https://picasaweb.google.com/joaovox
>  http://picasaweb.google.pt/uniprochaosobral
>  
>  Para descobrir:
>  Documentário "Alface" na Aldeia das Amoreiras
>  http://vimeo.com/58999047
>  Permacultura na Serra do Açor - Portugal
>  http://permaculturinginportugal.net/blog/
>  "Comida que nunca acaba" / Permacultura no Malawi
>  http://www.neverendingfood.org/
>  Centro de Ecologia Integral
>  http://www.integralecology.org
>  Nyumbani - Kenya
>  http://www.nyumbani.org/about-us
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