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  • From: Paul Cross <charybda@newmex.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permagriculture] [permaculture] Permaculture Design Systems
  • Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 01:51:59 -0600

Thank you to all who took time to respond to these questions with so many good points. I pretty much agree with everything that was stated. I certainly would like to echo LL's sentiment that permaculture ought to spend a lot more attention on food production, at not only the home and neighborhood scale, but also the community scale. And yes, permaculture's ability to awaken people to their connection to the ecosphere might be one of its biggest impacts, as Jason stated.

Joel, you wrote, "I think that the real potential of PC is designing change efforts if we
would use it in that way. It is (n)ot about designing a farm but designing the
process for the self-creation of farms...or economies, or communities. This
is why observation of the forces is so critical. We are not trying to
decide the best array but the smallest changes that will result in the best
array. This is where we have failed in shifting larger systems: we have not
been thinking about or designing these as essential portions of every
physical design we do."

I'd be happy to read more if you'd like to elaborate. I didn't understand what you meant by the best array. I'm not sure what's in this array.


Re: farms
I pulled out Bill's big black book today and there it is, right on the first page of the preface:

"Permaculture (permanent agriculture) is the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive ecosystems which have the diversity, stability, and resilience of natural ecosystems."

If farmers are going to start using permaculture, there might be some obstacles to overcome. It's ideal to take the PDC within your own ecozone. But typically the PDC is offered during the growing season, which is exactly when farmers can't take a PDC because they're too busy farming. It's good that there is a diversity of options for taking a PDC. For many farmers, a PDC during the depths of winter would be easier to attend.

It seems like the place to start is with the beginning market farmers working on the micro scale, say the $5K - $15K annual sales. These growers typically do 100% direct marketing of diverse offerings. If successful at that scale, it's not long before sales are $30K, then 50K, then within a few more years up at 100k. Existing $100k+ market farms have working systems in place and may be more reluctant to redesign, as Toby pointed out. So Koreen is at an advantage by starting small! And not crazy at all to have those goals. There is a huge growth in micro farms happening right now. Every one I've seen is annual row crops.

[Just for the record, I do have a six-figure certified organic farm and have never taken a PDC. But I'm a critical thinker and self-directed learner by nature. I do a good deal of independent study on PC.]

Paul







  • Re: [permagriculture] [permaculture] Permaculture Design Systems, Paul Cross, 08/28/2015

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