permaculture

[Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>]

I am into constructed wetlands, minimum till raised bed biointensive
vegetable gardening, landscaping, remineralization and soil quality but my
friend Mike is a serious history buff so I'll let him tell it like it is.
Maybe Steve will get the picture and realize that bringing real
permagritech that is natural, sustainable and regenerative to people who
need it for survival is a good thing, much better than sounding like a
broken record preaching to the choir. Here's Mike's take on Allende:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:30 AM

Now, on to Mr Glen Atkinson! Here we have a New Zealander, who's an obvious
fan of Pinochet. And the first thing I have to say is, however you may try
to educate him, he is not amenable to conversion. He has his beliefs, ones
we don't share. That's about all you can say.

I could point out that Salvador Allende was a lawfully elected president
and followed the laws of Chile throughout his term in office.

I could point out that most of the pain Chile suffered during his
presidency was due to US determination to strangle the Chilean economy, and
quite intentional. Only a part was due to the inexperience of a new
socialist government there. His mistakes were few, and his crimes none.

I could point out that he was deposed by a violent and unlawful coup, one
where many thousands were rounded up and sent to detention camps in the
remote south of the country-- never to be seen again. And that 3,000 were
known to have been executed at once, without trial, in Santiago's soccer
stadium where they were interned and terrorized. But I know the type. Mr
Atkinson will not be impressed.

And finally, I could point out that it's true, post-Pinochet Chile has a
buoyant, rising economy. But that's only because it has become untethered
from the interests of the general public. Any country that guts its pension
and public welfare systems will experience some giddiness as all the money
in the economy, previously used to assist those most in need, rises to the
top. Meanwhile the poor have demonstrably gotten much, much poorer there
than they were under Allende and his predecessor, Eduardo Frei.

Best just not to talk with him. People like that just make us mad. Life's
too short, to try to convert an ardent fascist.

Chile went from being a democracy to being a dictatorship. And there are
always those who prefer things that way, fearing that the general public,
if allowed to determine who is to be their government, will always opt for
confiscation of the hard-earned fortunes of the rich and powerful. No one
is about to change their minds.

But if you do want to read a short synopsis of just what happened, this is,
I think, a pretty good one:

Chile, to the Overthrow of Allende in 1973
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch24y.htm

Were mass political murders justified? I believe Mr Atkinson would say so.
If I were to meet the man face to face I'd ask him for his take on the
murder of Chile's General Rene Schneider, killed during Frei's presidency
for supporting the idea of democracy, and refusing to join in the earlier
planned coup against Frei. Had Schneider gone along with the plot, there
might not have been any President Allende in the first place.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Gooood shittt Lawrence..sorry I wont enter into similar abuse as much as I
>> would like to. As I once used to, and learnt, that it does not offer any
>> positive contribution to any situation, topic or debate.
>>
>
> Similar abuse.....
> Go right ahead Steve, don't hold back. You're useful.
> I see you have contacted your puppet master....evidence of your
> passive-aggressive modus operandi (you don't seem to read very many posts
> in reply to you; either you do not comprehend or they bore you). This is
> his email:
> Comment freely. For the people interested in leftist causes this post is
> probably filled with lies and right wing corporate whore propaganda. I see
> he can't even spell Alliende. Probably never heard of Neruda or Jara.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Glen Atkinson <bdmax@xtra.co.nz>
> Date: Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:33 PM
> Subject: Glen Atkinson who is an apologist for Pinochet and possibly the
> Argentine Junta?
> To: lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Cc: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
>
> Lawrence
>
> Nice to see a I rate a reference…….
>
> I appreciate there is no real use trying to communicate with you, however
> just for a laugh…..
>
> Have you been to Chile? Have you talked to the people who had to live
> under the tyranny of Alienda?
> , who gave guns to large sectors of 'his people', who then perpetrated a
> Mugabe style land grab, and bankrupted the country within two years……. Do
> you know ANY of this?
> How do you suggest to contain such a situation without sending in the army?
>
> Do you know that Chile is THE least corrupt country in Sth America, that
> it did not experience even a small blip during the recent GFC, and its
> economy is strong enough that there is now free teritary edcation for all.
> This is all due to Pinochet and his USA alliance.
>
> I am for calling a spade a spade, and Pinochet actually has made Chile the
> country it is today, as much as I deplore fascism and the USA, you got to
> give the guy his dues. His legacy is a stable non corrupt democracy within
> a very corrupt and unstable region. Try doing business there and you will
> appreciate 'his gift'.
>
> No I do not support the corrupt Argentinian junta.
>
> Glen Atkinson
>
> <>
>
> Viva Che, Glen!
>
> LL
>
>
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
>
>
>
>


-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/