permaculture

[Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The great problem here is we species man have a habit of trying to simplify
> things. Probably because we are naturally lazy..we like shortcuts.

Horse dung. Speak for yourself. You have NO clue what others are doing and
have accomplished over the past 50 years. Until you take a serious look at
the global world of organic and permacultural agriculture over the past
hundred years you are hardly entitled to insult us as being lazy and opting
for simplfication.


> There
> are other dynamics that create the 500 from horns which is very different
> from compost systems. They are spiritual. etheric and astral energies
> combined with Electromagneticism. Read: garudabd.org/content/links
>

Prove it.
Do you have a food garden?
Do you find the scientology and creationism movements attractie?
When are you going to extricate your mind from the grip of that
despicable fascist pig posing as some kind of visionary.....and think for
yourself.
Have you tried aquaponics? compost tea? remineralization?
or do you buy all your food from the box stores?

I think Elaine has made a valid point. Do you know as much about
microbiology as she?
What qualifies you to preach

>
> Steve Hart
>
> On 2 June 2015 at 10:36, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Really excellent, useful information from Elaine Ingham!
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Elaine Ingham soilfoodweb@aol.com [compost_tea] <
> > compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
> > To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Has anyone else noticed the interesting parallels between biodynamic
> horn
> > manure prep and compost teas? (See footnote for details)
> >
> >  *I'd say the parallel is with compost and horn manure prep.......... by
> > the time you bury a horn filled with manure in the ground, made sure
> there
> > is good moisture, and worms, protozoa, nematodes and microarthropods are
> > also present, for the 9 months horn manure is supposed to be in the
> ground,
> > then all the manure is very well composted by movement of all those
> > organisms into the manure.  The horn adds all sorts of nutrients to the
> > manure, if the organisms are present and functioning properly.  *
> >
> >
> > What DO should I be aiming for in my brew to maintain enough content for
> my
> > organisms at peak reproduction rate (assuming I have lots in my compost
> to
> > start with)?
> >
> > *Minimum DO of 6 ppm.  Better to run above that.  Even better, be
> checking
> > hte liquid to make sure only the beneficial organisms are growing.  Do
> NOT
> > want to see ciliates, rotifers, spirilla, spirochetes, streptococci, or
> > yeasts.  You DO want to see lots of wide diameter, colored fungi with
> > uniform septa, high diversity of short to long, fat to wide rod-shaped
> > bacteria (the cocci will be dime a dozen), and beneficial protozoa.   *
> >
> >  Why on earth does she recommend molasses?
> >
> >  *Not sure what she you are referring to, but molasses ONLY if you need
> > more bacteria ----- which is NOT the case with most ag soils.  *
> >
> >
> >
> > Elaine R. Ingham
> > President, Soil Foodweb Inc.       Soil Life Consultant
> > Since I travel a great deal, please consider that I may miss e-mails so
> if
> > I don't answer within 3 days, please try again.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adam Ormes Court ormus23@gmail.com [compost_tea] <
> > compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> > To: compost_tea <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sun, May 17, 2015 3:54 pm
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
> >
> >
> >      Thanks for the replies.
> >
> >  To be fair there are multiple questions in what I wrote. I've tried to
> > simplify.
> >
> >  Has anyone else noticed the interesting parallels between biodynamic
> horn
> > manure prep and compost teas? (See footnote for details)
> >
> >  What DO should I be aiming for in my brew to maintain enough content for
> > my organisms at peak reproduction rate (assuming I have lots in my
> compost
> > to start with)?
> >
> >  Why on earth does she recommend molasses?
> >
> >  Have you seen the intriguing results of using flowforms on DO content as
> > described in my link? As looks to me that if they are repeatable, this
> > could make contractors' jobs a lot easier.
> >
> >  Adam
> >
> > ~~~~~~~
> >
> > 500 - take a well-developed horn from a cow who has had a calf, fill it
> > full of firm and fresh cow manure. Bury it a foot or so down beneath a
> rich
> > soil over the winter. Identify the site well! Exhume it around Easter (N
> > Hemisphere) and, for each acre, about 50 grams of what comes out is put
> > into about 20 litres of water and stirred vigorously for an hour. Make
> sure
> > there are vortices one way and then the other which reach to the base of
> > the bucket or barrel, and interrupt them vigorously to change direction.
> > After stirring, take this to your land and sprinkle it over the soil.
> (How
> > many of you are thinking, "Why didn't I think of that?") 500 is sprayed
> > when soil cultivation is taking place and before new crops are planted.
> It
> > is thought to act primarily upon the soil and roots.
> >
> >
> >   --
> >  "The roots of knowledge are bitter, but its fruit are sweet."
> > — Cicero, Roman Statesman (106-43BC)
> >
> >  On 17 May 2015 at 20:48, John Bridges jbridgestx@yahoo.com
> [compost_tea]
> > <
> > compost_tea@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >    Hello Adam.
> > >
> > >  I remember your question and wanted to ask you back then as to just
> > > which of her field guides for AACT are you referring to, #1 or #2. But
> > > something shiny must of distracted me and I never got around to asking
> > you.
> > >
> > >  Through out her works, she also gives many examples of mistakes. I can
> > > only assume that is what you saw, till seeing the chart in question. As
> > > well as the fact that she written and spoken about when teas are most
> > > likely to go anaerobic so many times. As well as why she doesn't like
> > > adding molasses. That what your referring to is yet another example of
> > > mistakes.
> > >
> > >  So many people make the mistake thinking that brewing AACT has several
> > > things in common with raising fish in a aquarium. Other than both
> > involving
> > > ai r, water and living creatures. Everything else is mostly different.
> > >
> > >  But I may be able to use raising fish to answer your question.
> > >  How long can you keep fish alive in a ten gallon aquarium, if you turn
> > > off the air pump?
> > >  Too many variables to give a precise answer. As temperature effects
> it.
> > > As would oxygen levels when you turned off the pump. As would the same
> > > setup being at sea level or in Denver.
> > >  Mainly, it would depend on how many fish were in the aquarium.
> > >
> > >  If it only had a few guppies? You may not have any limits to how long
> > > you could "get away" without supping aeration. If you had the maximum
> > > number fish a ten gallon aquarium could sustain with aeration? You
> should
> > > get your aeration going again pretty fast.
> > >
> > >  But only looking at how they are doing will tell you for sure. Same
> with
> > > AACT, but you need a microscope to check.
> > >
> > >  Brewing AACT, we hope to have grown the maximum number of  aerobic
> > > microbes that our machines will sustain. So we don't want them spending
> > any
> > > more time than is absolutely necessary, without aeration. Before
> getting
> > > them put out on our plants and in our soils.
> > >
> > >  For, like having a aquarium filled to its maximum holding capacity of
> > > all different kinds of fish. Some fish can take lower O2 levels than
> > > others. Same with microbes.
> > >
> > >  There is a source selling gallons of AACT in the Dallas/Fort Worth
> area.
> > > They claim that their tea can be held for up to 8 hours without
> aeration.
> > > The only way that is possible is if its lame tea. Or something is
> > supplying
> > > the microbes oxygen. Like topping off their containers with pure
> oxygen,
> > > like so many pet stores do with buying fish. I'm pretty sure its just
> > lame
> > > tea.
> > >
> > >  Generally it is believed that we need to get our teas put out within 4
> > > hours of turning off aeration. But at best, that is when our teas are
> > > trash. Not a practice we want to do.
> > >
> > >  I have seen so called professional AACT applicators with huge tanks of
> > > diluted tea, with no aeration. Who knows what they were thinking.
> > >
> > >
> > >  John Bridges
> > >
> > > Bridges Heritage Growers
> > > Keller, Texas
> > > In the woods & soils of the Cross Timbers
> > > 2012 USDA zone 8a
> > > AHS Heat Zone 9
> > > Sunset zone 33
> > > Dallas, Fort Worth area
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    On Sunday, May 17, 2015 6:18 AM, " Adam Ormes Court
> ormus23@gmail.com
> > > [compost_tea]" <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  I posted a question about compost teas a month ago, however nobody
> > > answered it...
> > >
> > >  Here it is again:
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >  Greetings,
> > >
> > > My first post here.
> > >
> > > Have become interested in this subject through Elaine Ingham's work;
> for
> > > me it casts a very interesting light on the biodynamic horn manure
> > > preparation, especially given that Steiner was talking about
> > > vortex-stirring it in a barrel, ie oxygenating. (Biodynamicists please
> > take
> > > note, I'm not being reductionistic here - I feel that there is more
> going
> > > on with the preps - but that fact in itself is very interesting.)  A
> > friend
> > > and I interviewed her recently and asked about biodynamics among other
> > > things, so if you're interested in that you can listen to the interview
> > > here: http://www.needfire.info/home/interview-with-dr-elaine-ingham
> > > Anyway, moving swiftly on, this leads me to my question...
> > >
> > > I've been looking at the literature on the oxygen content of compost
> > > teas. In Elaine's compost tea manual, I see that the advice is not to
> > > allow oxygen levels to drop below 6ppm in order to prevent the
> > development
> > > of anaerobic organisms. The relevant chapter features a chart showing
> > > oxygen levels over time as the tea brews, starting at 8ppm, and
> starting
> > to
> > > dip after 8, to a low of about 5ppm after 19 hours and starting to
> > recover
> > > thereafter. It is also stated that the tea brew used molasses and kelp
> -
> > > which in itself is a little confusing as I thought that adding molasses
> > was
> > > generally not a good idea? But regardless of that, the point here is
> that
> > > the oxygen dropped below 5ppm and therefore the quality of the tea is
> > > likely not great as anaerobes will have had a chance to multiply.
> > >
> > > Therefore... I would like to know what the D.O. content of the brew
> ought
> > > to be at before the organisms start to affect it. Or is this not a
> simple
> > > equation?
> > >
> > > The second part of my question is regarding what happens after the
> > brewing
> > > stops.
> > >
> > > I've yet to get a good picture of what happens once a bubbler is turned
> > > off. Do the organisms start to die off for lack of oxygen, or do they
> > > become dormant? How quickly does the quality deteriorate?
> > >
> > > In this context the research done into making compost teas with
> flowforms
> > > is particularly of interest to me. There is a document here
> > > <http://flowform.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oxygenation-Report.pdf
> >
> > > which in its final heading documents some research done by Joel
> Williams
> > at
> > > Laverstoke Park into the D.O. content of water put through a Flowform,
> > > which shows that it remained high for 8 days, which was not when it
> went
> > > down, but when he stopped taking readings. My understanding is that
> this
> > is
> > > in stark contrast to brews made with bubblers.
> > >
> > > If this is true, then it would seem to me that this would be worthy of
> > > further investigation... have any here looked into this?
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >   --
> > > "The roots of knowledge are bitter, but its fruit are sweet."
> > > — Cicero, Roman Statesman (106-43BC)
> > >
> > >  On 17 May 2015 at 06:34, Tyler Nofziger strider_gts@hotmail.com
> > > [compost_tea] <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >    I've already made and sprayed about 80,000 gallons of compost tea
> > > (give or take 10k gallons) in the last couple months =)
> > >
> > > For context, I apply agricultural applications locally.
> > >
> > >  ------------------------------
> > > To: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 20:26:38 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [compost_tea]
> > >
> > >
> > >   Perhaps many of us have gone "dormant" over the northern hemisphere
> > > cool season?
> > >
> > >  On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:36 AM, 'ROCK' rap.rem8626@comcast.net
> > > [compost_tea] <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  What ever happened to tea talk on this site...
> > >
> > >  When's the last time compost tea was mentioned...Rock
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >      __._,_.___
> >   ------------------------------
> > Posted by: Elaine Ingham <soilfoodweb@aol.com>
> > ------------------------------
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> > <
> >
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> >  __,_._,___
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
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>
>
> --
> Kia ora
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
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-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/