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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Is this Acquaponics then ? RESPONSES ?
  • Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 05:49:07 +1200

Thanks George: *Responses.*..as you may have interpreted George, I value
this facility that LL offers our world very highly IMO it is not used
nearly enough at all, to one, stimulate debate, often critical debate which
is again extremely valuable for our entire networks and all tangential to
them. Two, it connects us in many ways within our own networks. Three, it
opens up different viewpoints. I often say in any argument there is four
sides to a story, his side, her side the other side and the truth. Often,
the truth is rarely exposed.

My argument within the worlds of aquaponics has been picked up by only
Scott Pittman. Ironically Scott and I agree on many subjects. Many similar
viewpoints are finally exposing themselves to our world through the
excellent site www.mercola.com but, be aware, one needs to avoid the hype
and marketing to get to the truth underneath that. I'm sure there are many
other sites that could offer similar. Dr Mercola in his site presents it so
to be accessible to the mainstream.

I have often talked of the falling standards in Permaculture as has Scott,
its our Elephant in the Room. This healthy debate has an opportunity to
open this subject up to allow aspects of such fall to be exposed recognised
and considered to then allow us to act. Scott and I are first generation
PC'rs and it irritates us to see this "Collapse Dance". We know what the
outcome will be. We are trying to resurrect the ship before it sinks. This
applies at all levels.

I do look forward to continued debate..its all healthy. Steve Hart

On 15 May 2015 at 23:17, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:

> Hallo,
>
> > Aquaponics is no less an imitation of nature than a garden: animal
> wastes are converted into nitrates via biological activity, returned to
> plants, and purified water drains out of the beds (to be recycled, unlike a
> garden where it runs off and then new water must be input, often
> artificially via irrigation).
> >
> > A garden is not natural. The moment you save seeds, weed, prune, graft,
> domesticate plants, irrigate, make an herb spiral or a keyhole bed, compost
> in a pile or in sheet mulch, use cardboard, or a shovel, wheelbarrow, rake
> or hori-hori, you are doing things not done in nature. You are using
> technology and design. Both are artificial and done only by humans. Design
> is artificial and does not imitate how nature creates; she evolves while we
> design. Only hunter-gatherers are “natural” in that sense, and only some of
> them.
> >
> > The criterion “does it imitate nature” to me isn’t a good one. A nuclear
> reactor imitates nature. A massive extinction event imitates nature.
> Genetic engineering uses only enzymes found in nature and imitates the gene
> splicing that nature does. We end up making arbitrary distinctions that way
> that have nothing to do with whether it is natural or not—you’re really
> concerned with the welfare of the fish more than, is it “natural”.
> Aquaponics absolutely mimics the natural system of fish pooping into water,
> that water running out of a lake, flowing through soil, being purified by
> microbes and plants, and being returned by the plants to the system in
> clean form. It can be done humanely and ecologically, or stupidly and
> cruelly. Like any human endeavor.
> >
> > The criterion, “does it contribute to the health of the local and global
> ecosystem” to me is far better than “does it mimic nature.” And when an
> urban aquaponics systems provides healthy produce and meat to a low-income
> population who would otherwise be shopping at a big-box store and buying
> CAFO meat, as the mid-scale system at the GrowHaus in Denver does, then
> that criteria has been met. Those people don’t have access to the land
> needed for a food forest, or even a garden.
> >
> > Like everything else in permaculture, it’s context dependent. Aquaponics
> to me is a good tool in certain cases for zone 1 or 2 intensive production
> and is no more unnatural than drip irrigation or using a knife.
> >
> > You’re right, we’re still very much beginners at imitating natural
> systems. Aquaponics is a much closer mimic than a vegetable garden.
>
> Toby, I am in love with your crisp mind and eloquency. Thank you for
> taking the time to write this. I will add this to my copy-paste snippets
> for easy reply various questions I receive.
> Think I will read your book too, sure is fun.
>
>
>
> >> I have been irritated for a number of years now of serious abuse of the
> >> whole world of Permaculture seeing first hand many failures and abuse
> under
> >> the guise of Permaculture. This applies at all levels. So I, for one,
> feel
> >> it is worthwhile to bring such debate up time and time again to assist
> in
> >> maintaining vigilance and reinforcement as you have both offered. To see
> >> and stand by watching while *"*
> >> *honest effort to grasp what it is, and not confuse it with something
> it’s
> >> not.*
> >> *​"* continues rampantly through many regions of "Permaculture"​
> >>
> >> Thanks again for biting and offering your degrees of vigilance to build
> a
> >> more robust Permaculture community
>
> Steve, you and your appraoch are awsome in my eye. Kudos and cheers!
>
> Georg
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--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
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  • Re: [permaculture] Is this Acquaponics then ? RESPONSES ?, Steve Hart, 05/15/2015

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