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  • From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj@bellsouth.net>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Is this Acquaponics then ?
  • Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 11:56:33 -0400

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
wrote:

> I, too have serious questions about aquaponics, Larry. I have yet to see
> a system that is regenerative and not dependent on imported inputs I only
> see a value for aquaponics in "food desert" situations and in areas of
> extreme poverty; otherwise I feel it is whistling in the dark. Ocean
> farming is still factory farming just in seawater. I agree that any form
> of factory farming is odious.
>
> Scott
>
> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> obsolete" Buckminster Fuller
>

> Nothing wrong with aquaponics done right; completely permacultural. Better
> someone eating aquaponics-grown seafood than mass produced factory farm
red
> meat.

I expect aquaponics has been widely adopted globally, possibly in
commercial production systems that may or may not be sustainable or
regenerative, using minimum or no external inputs. Therefore the best
systems that exist, most aligned with permaculture, may be less visible to
the public while more profit oriented ones will be seen in the mainstream
media.

> I only see a value for aquaponics in "food desert" situations and in
areas of extreme poverty

That alone is adequate reason to develop aquaponics and use it in
permaculture designs throughout the world.

I proposed elaborate, a): manually operated, hand pumps, gravity flow,
tides, wiers, etc. b): solar electric (pumps & valves) c): a) & b) plus
digital controls with cheap laptop/rasberry pi/CHIP systems in a discussion
of aquaponics here some time back. I think it started with ideas for
Koreen's urban community sustainable food system
proposals. My ideas had to do with production of protein from aquatic
organisms (snails, crawfish, shrimp, clams, mussels, fish, maybe eels and
more), bioremediation of water
used in their growing environment by certain containerized plants used for
just that purpose and a constructed wetland while remaining nutrients would
fertilize food crops in various hydroponic environments (like watercress or
wasabi in an artificial stream with gravel and rock), in pots, tubes, trays
or half pipes or other systems including mini floating islands and
chinampas). Greenhouses would be used where necessary depending on the
climatic zone involved. Poultry, guinea pigs, rabbits could be included in
such systems with green forage provided for them while their manure would
be used as fertilizer after bioremediation by aquatic plants, fish, snails
and other creatures. Any flying insects generated would become food for the
poultry. Adding cultivation of larvae, grubs, worms, etc. to the system at
the point where manure was introduced would provide food for meat animals
and compost to fertilize food crops as compost tea. I envision a
constantly flowing, dynamic system that requires only seeds, meat animals
and fish and those could be generated sustainably on site. Really though
you are talking about a food generating facility for a properly sized
community, match the facility to the community population,
and establish a division of labor, task and production of the various
components of the system. Individual homesteads/mini farms could produce
any of the chickens, ducks, geese,
rabbits, guinea pigs, seeds, perennial food plants, aquatic plants used in
remediating nutrient rich water with pathogens (cattails, water lillies,
duckweed varieties (some used for livestock feed, high protein) water
hyacinth and other aquatic plants beneficial to fish as breeding habitat
and food. Since you are talking about a community food production system
going beyond field and garden crops, tree crops, orchards and forest
gardens then add small livestock with a rotation grazing system that
provides plant food and weed control otherwise highly beneficial to on site
ecosystems, all providing protein for community consumption, crop
fertilizer and nutrient input for the aquaponic systems. You are talking
about a totally integrated community wherein everyone has their appointed
task and everyone benefits. Add mushroom production and special cash crops
that could be exported for cash to purchase whatever external inputs are
needed such as solar electric and computing devices, new LED lighting and
an electricity generator running on biogas, which could be generated by
community and household composting toilets. The possibilities are endless
and exist in abundance for urban communities as well. The entire system
is divided into zones that are fully integrated with the aquaponic
production unit as well as being consistent with the permaculture zone
system.

I maintain that aquaponics is fully permacultural if done right and that is
an easy task.

Let's hear it Steve and Scott and Koreen if she is reading this thread.

How about further developing my idea for a sustainable, regenerative,
permacultural community food production system. Lets write the book on it.

LL

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve Hart
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 12:15 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Is this Acquaponics then ?
>
> Ahhh LL. the aquaponics mooted by many in the Permaculture is far and far
> away from "completely permacultural."
>
> Steve Hart
>
> On 14 May 2015 at 18:10, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:17 AM, Steve Hart <
> stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/13/seafood-shrimp-industry-fraud.aspx?e_cid=20150513Z3_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20150513Z3&et_cid=DM74728&et_rid=950105294
> >
> >
> > Why don't you find out about fish farming in Norway where it is a big
> > industry?
> > Aquaponics? In Norway they are grown in the fjords.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with aquaponics done right; completely permacultural.
> Better
> > someone eating aquaponics-grown seafood than mass produced factory farm
> red
> > meat.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lawrence F. London
> > lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> > Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> > https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > http://www.ipermie.net
> > Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
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> > elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> > nature-compatible
> > human habitat --
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kia ora
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>
> The Permaculture College of Europe.
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
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> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
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> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>



--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/




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