permaculture

[Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>]

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 9:26 AM, georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:

> I agree with most of what you say, however, I happen to disagree with
> the following statement:
> > ...because permaculture is a legitimate threat to said status quo.
> I do not think PC is a threat to anything. PC is patiently waiting
> until the established ways and powers fall apart, until the mainstream
> solutions do not work anymore, and then it will readily pick up the
> fallen, hungry, helpless etc., - not trying to lure anyone out of the
> mainstream, but to take over once the mainstream is no more, and there
> is chaos and disorientation. And PC isn't doing this becaus us PC
> designers and practitioners are so noble, but because we have been
> successfully labled as the crack pots, pie-in-the-sky people. Lucky
> us :)
>

I found this thread in the Permaculture subreddit:

OP & comments follow:

OP:

Please give me the straight truth about this
lifestyle.<http://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/1y2us2/please_give_me_the_straight_truth_about_this/>
(self.Permaculture <http://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/>)
http://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/1y2us2/please_give_me_the_straight_truth_about_this/
submitted 5 hours ago by
EndOfTheLine00<http://www.reddit.com/user/EndOfTheLine00>
Every so often I read about all the worsening problems of climate change,
economic instability, etc, and I believe that eventually the few people who
survive will have to resort to subsistence farming. However, I am perfectly
willing to admit that I am addicted to the current tech reliant life style
and that prospect frightens me. So I want you to answer these following
questions as ACCURATELY as possible (no sugarcoating):
1) How many hours a day of labor does subsistence farming take? And how
physically intensive is it? I hear stories about people who do it for
extended periods of time becoming permanently crippled eventually. Is this
true? 2) Is this the sort of thing someone could do on their own? 3) What
exactly do people "off the grid" talk about? I like talking about deep
topics, whether those derived from current events, literature, movies etc.
Do people who mostly work outdoors resort mostly to small talk? I know
these sound like weird questions but I just want to know the truth.

Comments:

[–]<http://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/1y2us2/please_give_me_the_straight_truth_about_this/#>
AnthAmbassador <http://www.reddit.com/user/AnthAmbassador> 4 points 3 hours
ago

You seem to have a pretty bleak outlook on things.

I would really encourage you to look at the videos of the transformation of
the Loess Plateau in China. It gives a sense of how well things can work
out with good holistic planning. The more there is pressure for this kind
of work, and the more we move towards solutions, the more people can have a
pretty cushy life engaging in agricultural labor.

If you are working in bad soil, with poor irrigation options on a parcel
that is too small for you project, and you don't have time to establish a
system but instead need to subsist immediately off your labor, you can work
back breakingly hard and get no where.

On the other hand, if you have good soil, good ecology, good biodiversity
and good services to rely on like weather prediction, irrigation water,
cooperative neighbors, and good seed stock and live stock, and you have
enough space to apply those resources and technologies, you can create a
pretty plush existence with nearly no energy inputs.

Things that in my opinion make good use of resources: wood stoves that are
well designed, high quality insulation, electricity for certain tasks
(think clothes washer, electric tools, lighting, well pumps, hay loft
elevators) piping for water.

Bad uses of resources are plastic packaging, air shipping fruit, driving an
hour to work, stuff like that which are the predominant expenditure of
resources, but are not necessary and can be eliminated with good design. I
think if we apply ourselves, connect with our neighbors and build community
support for alternatives, there is actually a pretty bright future.

We can feed everyone in the US with the land we have, and everyone can be
eating lots of steak while we are at it. Not like India or China which will
run into serious food problems without high yield ag.

I'd suggest you worry less and get proactive so that you don't feel so
helpless. There are lots of cool learning opportunities in the states,
though I'd suggest growing power first and foremost in Wisconsin, because
it's approachable and you'll get amped up after meeting Will Allen


[–]<http://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/1y2us2/please_give_me_the_straight_truth_about_this/#>
ecoponderosa <http://www.reddit.com/user/ecoponderosa> 1 point 3 minutes
ago*

Great questions.

1) How many hours a day of labor does subsistence farming take?

Depends on:

1) what you need to grow: vegetables, fruit, nuts, livestock

2) soil quality, fertility/OM, water holding capacity, drainage

3) availability of water for garden and livestock and you, i.e. quality
potable water

"And how physically intensive is it? I hear stories about people who do it
for extended periods of time becoming permanently crippled eventually. Is
this true?"

Subsistence farming is healthy and is an excellent way to get exercise.

2) Is this the sort of thing someone could do on their own?

Certainly; all you need is land and water and electric power

3) What exactly do people "off the grid" talk about? I like talking about
deep topics, whether those derived from current events, literature, movies
etc. Do people who mostly work outdoors resort mostly to small talk?

I like to talk about just the things you mentioned. Subsistence farmers I
have known over they years are exactly like this, people interested in the
world around them and how they can provide for themselves from the land in
harmony with nature Join my Permaculture mailing list; you would be welcome
there and will feel right at home. Go here if interested: Permaculture

http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture

-- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers --

designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for synergy,
sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human habitat

"Permaculture is a design system which aims to create sustainable human
habitats by following nature's patterns."

Permaculture ("Perm"anent "agri"culture and "Perma"nent "culture") is a
sustainable design system stressing the harmonious interrelationship of
humans, plants, animals and the Earth.


-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Skype: lawrence.f.london