permaculture

[loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>]

This is so true.  There are so many variables in making compost:  feedstock, 
moisture levels, ratios of C:N.  All these factors result in different 
qualities of compost.  Most of the "compost" sold as such in my area is 
really barely matured wood chips with nitrogen fertilizer thrown in to set it 
off.  The piles arrive smoking hot and often smelling of ammonia.

The NOP has standards for making compost for application to Certified Organic 
operations, which are strict but good.  Their intention it seems is to reduce 
the chance of E. coli and other pathogenic organisms from flourishing (and 
therefor entering the food chain), as opposed to trying to create good 
compost with a high diversity of microbes.

I think one practical hurdle for farmers is the amount of work it takes to 
make proper aerobic compost.  You really do have to turn the pile every day 
if you have the proper ratios of C:N, otherwise you end up with alcohols and 
plant poisons.  This may not be realistic for most farmers who are already 
working most of their waking hours to take care of the existing chores, much 
less another rather time consuming chore of turning a pile.  Also, it often 
takes two to turn if done manually, one to turn and the other to moisten, 
unless you invest in costly specialized machinery (or make your own).

I personally am a big fan of fungal compost, or cold compost.  This does not 
require much turning, though requires time- like 6-12 months- to mature.  You 
only have to turn once per month, wetting thoroughly.  This type of compost 
can have a much higher volume of carbon, say 75+% leaves and small branches.  
If you mix in soil (10% by volume) you will get good moisture holding 
capacity which is the limiting factor in cold compost (it dries out quick if 
there are lots of air spaces in the pile).

Cold compost obviously does not get hot, so weed seeds can proliferate- so 
don't use noxious weeds as your feedstock.  Furthermore do not use 
potentially "hazardous" manures like poultry or pig, better to use horse or 
cow/steer.  This technique is perfect for the fall as there is an abundance 
of leaves and dry grasses, and the winter rains will keep the pile moist.  I 
have not done a microscope analysis of the resulting material, but just using 
it will prove how effective it is.  Plus it is easy, like making compost 
should be....    

Loren Luyendyk
(805)-452-8249
Accredited Permaculture Teacher, PRI-AUS
ISA Certified Arborist WE-7805A
www.sborganics.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org
www.globalpermaculture.com




> From: lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:37:27 -0400
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Elaine Ingham on compost.
> 
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:        Re: [compost_tea] Re: Standards
> > Date:   Mon, 28 Oct 2013 14:26:02 -0400 (EDT)
> > From:   soilfoodweb@aol.com
> > To:     compost_tea@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Standards would be a good thing.  Part of the problem stems from the
> > fact that agricultural programs at Universities ignore the proper
> > definition of compost.
> >
> > It appears that a certain set of soil scientists, agricultural and
> > horticultural professors and researchers in academic and US government
> > institutions do not understand that a sign on a pile of organic matter
> > that says "compost", does not in fact make it compost.  Or they pretend
> > they don't know and thus do "research" without ever assessing and
> > defining compost so they can make claims that "compost doesn't work".
> >
> > Based on work by Howard and Balfor, compost has to be aerobic to
> > maintain the conditions that allow the beneficial organisms to be
> > predominant.
> >
> > If the "compost" is black, stinky, with white ashy layers of
> > actinobacteria abounding, if oomycetes the only filamentous eucaryotes
> > present, and no aerobic protozoa or nematodes exist in the material,
> > then it is not compost.
> >
> > If the material is 70% cocoa color, rich earthy, old-growth forest
> > smell, wide diameter, colored filamentous fungi present, good numbers of
> > flagellates and amoebae (aerobic protozoa) and beneficial
> > nematodespresent, then it can be called compost.
> >
> > To make good compost extract or tea requires good compost with the
> > beneficial organisms in high numbers or biomass.  If extract or tea
> > become anaeorbic, then soluble essential nutrients are lost as gases,
> > and the aerobic beneficial organisms are no longer active and
> > functioning...... and so pretty much a waste of time to apply to the soil.
> >
> > How do we work on getting standards requiring assessment of beneficial
> > organisms for a material to be called compost accepted?  To do that
> > research was why I went to Rodale Institute 2.5 years ago, but since it
> > was not possible to implement the research I went there to do, I'm back
> > in Oregon, hoping to work with people more committed to getting the
> > replicated trials done.  There are thousands of examples where the
> > approach of returning the beneficial organisms to the soil works
> > extremely well; where dirt was converted into soil, where weed seeds
> > find it difficult to germinate and grow, where diseases and pests do not
> > find conditions conducive to their growth, where roots go deep into the
> > soil and find the water and nutrients, supplied by the aerobic food web,
> > to keep the plants healthy and full of nutrition for animals and people
> > to eat.
> >
> > Thousands of examples.
> >
> > But, not the replicated, scientific studies that are needed to bring
> > about the conversion of the last bastion of nay-sayers; i.e.,
> > researchers and academics still in the pocket of chemical and biotech
> > big business concerns.   When looking at the scientific literature, half
> > of the papers written in the last couple years extoll the benefits and
> > success of compost, extracts and teas.  But half the papers preach the
> > opposite: compost, extracts and teas are deadly, kill the plants, cause
> > problems. Because the researchers doing the negative work do not start
> > with compost.  Those negative reports have no criteria to define the
> > "compost" they used, other than someone put a sign in the pile saying
> > compost.
> >
> > Manure is ...... manure and not to be confused with compost.  Composted
> > manure means nothing other than the manure hung around for sometime in a
> > pile.  Manure can be turned into compost, if the correct temperatures,
> > moisture, aerobic conditions, and decomposition processes occur.  Any
> > organic matter can be turned into great compost, if the decomposition
> > process is properly performed.
> >
> > I have trained many people to do the qualitative microscope work, have
> > trained people who run the laboratories that do fully scienitifically
> > accepted assessments of quantitative microscope work.  Hopefully, all of
> > these folks have been training other folks to the microscope work so
> > each person can monitor for themself what happens in their soil,
> > compost, extracts, and teas.
> >
> > At this point, I'd like to put together a consulting group where people
> > doing this work can come together.  Possibly put together a database
> > where each person doing microscope work submits their data, with a full
> > explanation of what disturbances happened to that area previously.  I'd
> > like to see a database of what is around roots of different plants in
> > different places, soils, weather conditions, management practices.  But
> > a database that can be seen by everyone submitting data to the
> > database.  Or where people who want to see the database do a
> > pay-per-view.  We someone how have to support the people inputting data
> > to the database and keeping it running.
> >
> > It is going to take me a little bit to get this put together, if it is
> > is interest to other folks.  Maybe it has been started by others already
> > in some places.  If so, can we join forces?
> >
> > Just some thoughts I've been trying to get started over the last couple
> > years without the time or backing to get them underway.  Now seems a
> > good time to canvass the community and see what responses to these ideas
> > might be.
> >
> >
> > Elaine R. Ingham
> > Consultant, Soil Life
> >
> 
> <>
> 
> Bacterial enzymes usually remain attached to the cell, so any substrate on
> which the bacteria work will end up being taken up by that bacterium.
> 
> Some fungi work the same way, but many fungi make extra-cellular enzymes
> that go off some distance from the fungus and do their work.  The actual
> organism then usually grows to the place that the enzymatically altered
> substrate is now present and the fungus takes up that food resource.
> 
> Typically, the form of the nutrients released from protozoa, nematodes and
> microarthropods are the soluble inorganic forms or the chelated forms.
> think of it as predator poop.  Webber's "poop loop".
> 
> 
>  Elaine R. Ingham
> 
> <>
> 
> I find that manure from grass-fed animals is lower in nitrogen, so you need
> more grass-fed cow manure to achieve the same temperatures as compared to
> animals fed grain ratios or pelletized feed.  I think the cows get more N
> as protein from grass, and thus less N comes on through in to the manure
> with grass fed than grain fed animals.    If you have waste seed, or
> leguminous plant material to supplement the high N for the compost, that
> works too.
> 
> Since sources of high N to get the high temperature needed in composting
> are variable, within certain ranges, I think we need to come up with ways
> to do simple testing.  Thus, I always start with 10% high N by volume......
> have to pack down fluffy leaves or grass or plant material with thick
> stalks.
> 
> So, start with 10% high N, 40% green plant materials (as long as cut green,
> doesn't matter if it dries and turns brown, still has all the sugars, etc),
> 50% woody (stalks, brown leaves that fell off trees, wood chips, paper,
> cardboard, straw, etc).
> 
> If the temperature does not reach above 131 F within 3 days, double the
> amount of high N.... i.e., manure, legume, etc.
> 
> If the temperature does not maintain high temperatures above 131 F for a
> full 15 days, then  add double the high N of what you had originally and
> start over.
> 
> If the temps reach above 160 to 165, turn the pile ASAP.
> 
> If you see actinobacteria white ashy layers in the pile when you reach in
> to do moisture measurements, turn the pile ASAP.
> 
> If you smell bad smells when you pull the thermometer out of the pile (hold
> tip of thermometer to your nose immediately after pulling thermometer out
> of the pile), then turn the pile
> 
> If too wet, add dry material while turning.  If too dry, add water (put on
> hose-end applicatior with humic acid in the applicator to treat chlorine or
> chloramine in the water if necessary).
> 
> The recipe with 10% high N results in temperatures that increase slower,
> may not need to turn 5 times, and at most, you would end up turning the
> pile once a day, maybe once every other day.  Have to turn the pile at
> least 2 times though, probably 3 times, to get the cooler outside layer
> into the middle hot-enough area.
> 
> If you want the pile to heat faster, add more high N, up to 25% high N.
> But then you may end up turning the pile two times a day for the first 3 to
> 4 days.  There have been piles I've had to turn 3 times in one day, to keep
> the temperatures dropped low enough.
> 
> Make sense?
> 
>  Elaine R. Ingham
> 
> <>
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