permaculture

[Douglas Hinds <cedecor@gmx.net>]

On 12/23/2012 11:59 AM, Ben Martin Horst wrote:
> At least some evolutionary biologists have attributed the
> on-again-off-again production of mast crops as an adaptation to prevent
> predator populations -- e.g. squirrels -- from growing to damaging levels.

Squirrels collect acorns and bury them in the ground, where some of them 
sprout.  That makes squirrels the oak trees best friends and 
evolutionary partners, who do more good than harm, as long as oak trees 
keep producing more than squirrels can eat.  In that sense, for an oak 
tree to develop an alternating high/low production strategy (which 
attributes anthropomorphic motivation to oak trees), it would be 
counterproductive to it's own reproductive success, since the squirrels 
would eat them all and none would create baby oak trees.

Also, not all evolutionary biologists think alike.  Personally, I 
subscribe to Lynn Margulis's Serial Endosymbiotic Theory (SET) which 
emphasizes Fusion and Association (essentially collaboration, mutually 
beneficial survival strategies), over Darwinian Natural Selection 
(essentially, Competition). Lynn (along with Richard ?? was responsible for

> The squirrel population (for example) is essentially limited by the oaks'
> production of acorns in poor years, so in the good years there are huge
> quantities of acorns left for propagative purposes. I don't know if this
> applies to other irregular producers (like apples) or not, but might be
> worth bearing in mind.
>
> -Ben

Yes I agree.  Particularly on Sunday.



> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Douglas Hinds <cedecor@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> > On 12/23/2012 8:33 AM, Frances wrote:
> > > Sea buckthorn not only produces a highly nutritious fruit (which
> > requires processing and gloves to harvest), but it is, reputedly, a most
> > adaptable plant to earth conditions, and has natural protection from other
> > creatures that might want to harvest the fruit. And, it is a nitrogen fixer!
> > Many excellent tropical fruit bearing trees are also legumes.
> >
> > > ... an apple and pear specialist ... explained what the off/on nature of
> > apple harvests was about – this, no doubt, applies to other fruit trees as
> > well...
> > Yes but - from my experiences (primarily with subtropical fruit, i.e.
> > avocados), some varieties are prone to this behavior (heavy crops one
> > year but light crops the next) while others are not. Furthermore, while
> > thinning may be good anyway (to obtain larger fruit), there are other
> > alternatives, such as growing a variety that produces it's heaviest crop
> > during the off years.  That way you'll have plenty of fruit all the
> > time, to eat and sell.
> >
> > In any case, these are genetically based traits, so how hard can it be
> > to develop a cross that tends to produce every year?  After all,
> > _somebody_ had to develop or reproduce the varieties already in use.
> >
> > > People often refer to the phen. of an ‘on’ year and ‘off’ year for apple
> > harvest.  What Bill explained was that, the trick is to thin the apples
> > when they are the size of ping pong balls, making selections among closely
> > located specimens... Otherwise, the tree has such a huge hormonal output
> > that it has little energy for the buds it is also preparing for the next
> > year. The trick is to even out its hormonal workload with a result of a
> > more consistent year-to-year yield. Otherwise, what happens is that the
> > buds are few for the following year on the year of a huge apple outlay, and
> > then, in the year with less apples, the buds for the following year are
> > proportionately higher in number... Very interesting to learn about the
> > life cycle of the apple tree, we thought, and to understand more about its
> > productivity cycles.
> >
> > Once again - I seriously doubt that the phenomena you refer to is an
> > innate characteristic of apple trees per se. I would expect that trait
> > to be present in _some_ apple varieties but not all. And remember, those
> > of you who think seedling apples are inherently bad are rejecting the
> > means of resolving this issue.  IOW:  If the quality of most seedling
> > apples is less than ideal, all it means is that we human animals still
> > have more work to do, since that is exactly where all new varieties come
> > from:  Chance (or intentionally crossed) Seedlings that are then
> > reproduced by whatever means, and if the means isn't planting seed, the
> > genetically instability will continue to remain.  So plant the seeds,
> > see what you'll get and then plant again. :-)
> >
> > DH