permaculture

["wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk" <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>]

Daniel Jager <dfjager@yahoo.com> wrote;

"In another forum on Natural farming, Fukuoka style, a discussion came up 
about how abandoned fields invariably turn out very lush, vibrant and green 
given enough time."

Thanks very much for raising this very interesting subject, especially as I 
also happen to be in Thailand at the moment.

"After the flooding in Thailand, I lost almost my two homegardens. The area 
were in lived (and will continue to do so), was flooded for 7 weeks with 8 ft 
of water. Pomegranates, Starfruit, Acerola, Surinam cherries, bananas, 
papayas, Moringa, passionfruit, Marian plum, breadfruit, etc, etc. All gone. 
It was much the same with the homegardens of most people around me."

Where did you get all of your seeds to start with?  I have been looking for 
breadfruit for a long time especially.

"And yet, the abandoned housing allotments around my house were still 
vibrant, much as they were before the flood. Most trees even started to bloom 
like there hadn't even been a flood.
The area, former rice fields drained 20 years ago and left to develop 
naturally, is overgrown with Darwin Black wattles, Raintrees and Leadtrees. 
The underbrush in the rainy season is dense and diverse and lianas are 
already up to an inch thick in places. And best of all, none of this was 
planted; it is all just natural regeneration on these waterlogged soils."

So how are you planning to optimise the yields of these natural species?

"So I wondered what these trees knew that I didn't know.
I found out that the land in and around Bangkok was originally fresh water 
swamp forest, often inundated for 6 months in a row, very much like some 
areas in the Amazon delta in South America. Now it rarely floods though. 
Still the soils outside of the raised gardens get very soggy in the rainy 
season. So soggy, that most tree roots have a hard time and not many trees 
will take.
The dumb part is, I should have known this! I trained in uni as a Physical 
Geographer and I grew up in the Netherlands, of all swampy places in the 
world. It guess it was my pride and ignorance that dismissed the obvious 
evidence in my location and resolved to grow unadapted trees."

The key seems to be finding out what was on the original site, although this 
can sometimes be quite difficult.  The area where I spend much of the year 
(not actually Thailand) is supposedly high altitude deciduous monsoon forest, 
but even looking at photos of the area that are more than 100 years old, it 
is very difficult to confirm this.

"While in flood evacuation, I went to look for fruit trees that can grow in 
tropical fresh water swamp conditions, and was surprised that I managed to 
find some 40 species that can tolerate it, to varying degrees. So I restarted 
the garden already with seeds from specially adapted trees."

So which species did you you identify, and how did you go about finding seeds 
for these species?
Is there a good seed market near Bangkok or did you just collect from the 
wild?

Are there any areas of Bangkok that still have their natural flora?  I was 
always impressed by the gardens of the Apostolic Nunciature whenever I went 
past on the skytrain, but I suppose even that is all decorative and 
ornamental.

"In Natural farming, or in Permaculture, if we are perceptive and recognize 
the limitations of our location, and seek perfectly adapted species to suit 
our conditions, I have know doubt we will be successful AND fully in-tune 
with Nature."

Do you have any tips on how to identify this natural state for each 
particular area?

Thanks again for the fascinating post.

Chris
Currently in Hua Hin

>From lfljvenaura@gmail.com  Mon Dec 26 11:39:48 2011
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From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 11:39:26 -0500
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Subject: [permaculture] Chhattisgarh - India Photo Gallery by wietsej at
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Chhattisgarh - India by wietsej
http://www.pbase.com/wietsej/chhattisgarh

An incredible gallery of photographs of rural India.

Chhattisgarh - India by wietsej

http://www.pbase.com/wietsej/chhattisgarh