permaculture

[Fred Gerendasy <fred@cookingupastory.com>]

This video may be of interest to those in this group, and that happen  
to relate to this discussion: Urban Fruit Gleaning

Fred Gerendasy
Cooking Up a Story
On Jun 5, 2011, at 1:03 PM, Evan wrote:

> I really appreciate this message. I think it hits to a core of my  
> thoughts concerning how I've seen permaculture and organic gardening  
> approached in suburban and urban environments. As I've moved to a  
> rural area, it's required me to think a lot about the things that in  
> the city are just readily available -- leaves, woodchips, composts,  
> produce scraps, etc. I feel like most of the urban folks I know are  
> pretty locked into relying on these inputs, and I don't blame them.  
> I fill my truck up with biomass -- manures, sawdusts, woodchips --  
> whenever I can to bring home. But I also think a good deal about how  
> to gather my own mulches and build soil without inputs. Heck, I  
> can't even manage a compost pile because I have so few kitchen  
> scraps (well, there's a humanure pile, but that might not be ready  
> for a couple of years).
>
> Lately I've been scything hay for mulch in the garden, gathering  
> pine straw from beneath the white pines, trucking in sawdust from a  
> horse-logging job not far from here, and hoping to score an  
> abandoned wood chip pile around the corner. If I relied on the mulch  
> yard and the $20/yard hardwood mulch, I'd be broke so fast.
>
> My future mulches will probably involve lots of Rubus canes and leaf  
> litter deposits, some from logs I'll lay down with the intent of  
> catching leaves....
>
> Evan
>
> On Jun 5, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Dan Halsey, 612-720-5001 Halsey1.com  
> wrote:
>
> > I think gleaning is great. Harvesting the forgotten assets helps  
> > the plants
> > too. Gorilla gardening and clandestine operations in hidden spaces  
> > is a
> > resource few pursue. I also think that such things are short lived  
> > in a
> > resource poor economy which we may enter gradually. Locally the "fee"
> > woodchip market has dried up due to subsidies to garbage burning  
> > pants to
> > use renewable resources. They are paid to burn the organic material  
> > we need
> > for soil building. Sad. Also compost is getting more expensive and  
> > after a
> > hundred more community gardens have sprung up, the standard for  
> > soil is
> > fresh compost, not natural soils enhanced by organic matter grown  
> > on-site.
> >
> > As gleaning is popularized, community gardens extend, and  
> > populations move
> > to increase their natural capital, I think we shall see a shortage  
> > of all
> > the things we have come to take for granted including, raw organic
> > materials, water, space, and  vacant urban land.
> >
> > We need to overtly integrate ourselves locally and socially with the
> > neighborhoods that will inevitably need experience. Develop the  
> > systems now
> > in the mid-block yards of property owners in common garden  
> > communities, and
> > they will be established and appreciated even before an urgent need
> > develops.
> >
> > Daniel Halsey
> > SouthWoods Forest Gardens
> > 17766 Langford Blvd
> > Prior Lake, MN 55372
> >
> > 612-720-5001
> > Southwoodscenter.com
> > Southwoodsforestgardens.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of
> > permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:01 AM
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 101, Issue 3
> >
> >
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >  1. Re: (Sub)urban Permaculture Elements (Jason Gerhardt)
> >  2. Re: (Sub)urban permaculture (jenny Nazak)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:22:16 -0600
> > From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] (Sub)urban Permaculture Elements
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Message-ID: <BANLkTi=25UJVG7R9JymL7AVzCeiMpM3=zg@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Bob, Glenn, all,
> > I am one such urban resident who works in the rural lands to  
> > regenerate the
> > potential of the larger landscapes. However, as an urban resident I  
> > tend to
> > think in terms of bioregional zones of use about my food supply.  
> > Out my door
> > in my zone 1 of concrete and asphalt gridiron on top of which I  
> > have a
> > significant potted garden growing my micronutrient and vegetable  
> > base in the
> > form of greens, salads of various types, cabbage, broccoli/cauli,  
> > summer
> > fruits, figs, culinary herbs, etc. I can walk outside and eat an  
> > instant
> > salad at anytime. I also guerilla garden various patches of  
> > abandoned land
> > in my neighborhood where I grow beans and have larger compost  
> > setups. In the
> > neighborhoods surrounding mine (nearly the rest of the town) I  
> > glean plums,
> > apples, apricots, grapes, seeds of rare plants, and scionwood from  
> > the bones
> > leftover of the agricultural traditions that once existed within city
> > limits, as well as clients forest gardens. This I consider my zone 2.
> > Outside of city limits I work on several properties implementing
> > permaculture design for broadacre agriculture by doing just what  
> > you suggest
> > in the form of water harvesting earthworks, orchard systems,  
> > animals, and
> > polycultural cereal grain production (very small scale). This is my  
> > zone 3.
> > Beyond that are the larger produce farms that bring food to the  
> > farmer's
> > market where I get things like melons, pickling vege, tomatoes for  
> > canning,
> > and loads of winter squash for storage. That is my zone 4. I also  
> > spend
> > sometime in the higher mountains in my bioregional zone 5 where I  
> > forage for
> > morel and porcini mushrooms, seeds of native plants, potherbs, wild  
> > berries,
> > etc. Even with all this (though it could be ramped up a  
> > hundredfold) I still
> > regularly walk two blocks to the natural food store where I  
> > participate in
> > the global food chain for perhaps the bulk of my caloric needs,  
> > though that
> > gets less and less as time goes on.
> >
> > I think if we intensively apply zonation to our bioregions we will  
> > get a lot
> > better at feeding ourselves locally which will halt the expansion of
> > inappropriate farmland and allow for the repair and restoration of  
> > some
> > farmland to mixed native ecosystems and regenerative agriculture.
> >
> > The amount of food that once came from within the limits of most  
> > cities and
> > towns is massive compared to what it is now. As an example, in the  
> > early
> > 1900's Boulder County Colorado was an exporter of fruits, whereas  
> > now we
> > import nearly all of our fruit from around the world or the Western  
> > Slope of
> > Colorado. Things change quickly it would seem. I think it is really  
> > easy to
> > produce vegetables on the home scale and that large scale produce  
> > farming
> > could be made nearly obsolete if we had a revolution of home  
> > gardening using
> > permaculture techniques. It makes a lot of sense that the larger  
> > local
> > acreages should be focusing on protein and calorie production  
> > rather than
> > produce. I think the work of Darren Doherty's RegenAg is perhaps  
> > the most
> > promising initiative for this work.
> >
> > As a past produce market farmer, in arid lands of the western US
> > particularly, I have to say I don't wish that way of agriculture on  
> > anyone.
> > Keeping up with the bugs, watering, super weeds, etc. just sucks.  
> > I'd rather
> > educate every city dweller to grow their own salads. It makes so  
> > much more
> > sense on a backyard scale where things like mulch and micro water  
> > harvesting
> > can be employed.
> >
> > In my experience, there a challenges to doing permaculture in both  
> > rural and
> > urban/suburban environments (mostly the social structures). I think  
> > both
> > need it equally and instead of choosing one over the other we  
> > should go with
> > what makes sense.  To me using zones to design our food supply  
> > lines is just
> > common sense, and it is zones that will determine where things  
> > should go and
> > where the focus should be set.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 18:29:49 -0500
> > From: jenny Nazak <jnazak@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] (Sub)urban permaculture
> > To: "permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Cc: "permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Message-ID: <13D14C59-9499-461E-B514-710D3DC3B28E@yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> >
> > What an excellent thread! I grew up in the suburbs, have been a  
> > gung-ho
> > city-rat all my adult life. And in the past few years have had many
> > enjoyable, fruitful experiences along the lines of what Glenn  
> > describes.
> >
> > Most recently, I spent a couple of months on a friend's farm,  
> > helping out
> > with sign-painting, marketing, cooking, and what I call  
> > "permaculture home
> > ec": using permaculture principles to improve the design of household
> > processes such as dishwashing, laundry, cooking, cleanup etc.
> >
> > In exchange for doing work I love, and having that work be very much
> > appreciated, I got beautiful rustic sleeping quarters and all the  
> > fresh
> > vegetables, eggs, pork, milk, and other wonderful local food I  
> > could eat. I
> > also had enough time to fulfill my responsibilities as public- 
> > relations
> > coordinator of a permaculture guild (an occupation I am able to do  
> > almost
> > entirely online and by phone).
> >
> > And my hosts were happy to let me hold my solar-cooking workshops  
> > at the
> > farm. (BTW I timed the workshops to make it easy for my students to  
> > shop at
> > the farm stand during its regular business hours.)
> >
> > A huge win-win, all in all, I would say!
> >
> > > From what I can see, such opportunities abound. I have stayed on  
> > > many farms
> > and ranches over the years, and they all had one thing in common:  
> > They were
> > short-handed. They needed more HUMANS!
> >
> > Being small businesses and cash-strapped, family farms and ranches  
> > are good
> > places to find work-trade opportunities.
> >
> > City-rat though I may be, I've gotten to participate in planting,
> > harvesting, butchering, marketing, and many other aspects of  
> > farming over
> > the years. All without having (or wanting) any land of my own.
> >
> > As a bonus: The friends' farm I stayed at recently, was located on  
> > a city
> > bus line with frequent service!
> >
> > Jenny
> >
> > Jenny Nazak
> > A semi-nomadic permaculture factotum
> > Based mainly in Ormond-By-the-Sea, FL, and Austin, TX
> >
> > Glenn wrote:
> >
> > "With patience and persistence you can find ways to partner with some
> > homesteaders and fearless, curious, or generous farmers, and become  
> > a farmer
> > yourself -- city dweller, with no land, no barn, no tractor, but a  
> > stake in
> > the business.  Picture helping with fencing, or buying a few sheep to
> > supplement a cow herd, planting black beans or wheat "
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
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> > End of permaculture Digest, Vol 101, Issue 3
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