permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 8/30/2010 1:51 PM, Nicholas Roberts, Permaculture.coop wrote:

> ecosystems services marketplaces are the domain of financiers and the state

As I see it, without preconceived ideas or bias,
ecosystem services are services offered and practiced by 
permaculturists, natural-sustainable-organic gardeners and farmers, 
landscapers, ecological site planners, etc.; consultation and 
implementation (construction, land work) services by them of the 
beneficial effect their own work on the ground has on their community 
and bioregion.

And you say financiers and the state own all this or dominate the market 
for those services?

Maybe you could define "ecosystems servicices marketplace. Is this some 
sort of corporate phenomenom?

Or are you trying to discourage entrepreneurs with skills and vision 
from entering local markets with consultation, planning, design and 
construction service offerings? Ex. someone with a PDC or interest in 
and knowledge of permaculture, landscaping and natural agriculture 
decides to go into business on a small scale offering consultative 
services locally, as a new lifetime career. Many are doing this these 
days.I did this and still do and will continue doing so indefinitely,
first as an eco-landscaper and now as a sustainabe market farmer.

Keywords here are local, entrepreneur, skills in the ecological design 
arena.

Do you see any reason for these new businessmen not to enter the market,
local and regional?

Your statement:
> ecosystems services marketplaces are the domain of financiers and the 
state

Needs to filled out with much more information. I am talking local, 
which you seem not to be. A consultant offering services to his 
community does not need to be concerned whether his skills can be 
applied and scaled up to restoration of New Orleans.

I think what I am saying would be useful to people affected by the 
floods in Pakistan and a lot more valuable to them than as tools they 
can use to help themselves than relying on someone else to do it for 
them, other than large-scale emergency aid from international 
organizations and an influx of permaculturists teaching and helping them 
reconstruct their lives and livelihoods. Those floods were exacerbated, 
according to the news I read, by massive, illegal, corporate (the timber 
harvest thugs) timber harvest for export by a few wealthy entities, just 
as is happening in Madagascar and has happened in Haiti by its people 
needing fuel.

> imho financialisation of mortgages was a disaster, people lost their homes
> and it nearly destroyed the world economy

Of course. We all know this, who did what, who didn't do what, and why 
and who got away with what they did.

> financialisation of ecosystems services, probably the first market will be
> in Carbon, will not only destroy farms but also possibly the planet

Yes, just like palm oil production. That's easy to see.

> I do imagine possible social finance, credit unions for ecosystem services

That's a good thing and is already happening.

> but the main advocates, players in ecosystems services, with its incredibly
> complicated financialisation and modelling are specialist consultants,
> finance houses and management groups, behind them are finance houses and the
> state see www.CarbonFinance.org

No doubt.

> imagine the contractual arrangements associated with providing ecosystems
> services brokered by a big bank ?

That's easy to imagine.

> do you really think you'd have a chance ?

Why would anyone like those I described above need such financing if any 
at all??? I said, small, local, community oriented, lifetime 
committment. Never go into debt. Practice permaculture and showcase that 
as an example of the quality services you offer.
I started out as a landscaper with 1) a bungi cord 2) a mattock 3) a 
used 10 speed bicycle and did various types of work in yards and 
gardens. Started out at $2/hr, soon went up $.50 and topped out at 
$15.00 per hour, a figure I would now be content with. I added a rake, 
shovel and hoe soon thereafter.

> it will make the sub-prime mortgage bubble look like a walk in the park
> http://www.fs.fed.us/ecosystemservices/
>
> do you really want the Feds, the banks, the financial markets controlling
> the ecosystems on your farm ?

They will never do such a thing, as long as I own it.

What are you really saying with such a statement laden to overflowing 
with overtones of corporate/government conspiracies. SB510 comes to mind 
if the wrong version of that bill becomes law.

> look what Monsanto does to seeds, imagine what Citibank will do to
> ecosystems ?

Good point. Still (except for seeds part) has nothing to do with local 
businessmen plying the eco-trades locally and regionally.

> my sense is this will further drive people "off grid"

Its already happening, thankfully.

and those that engage
> - well - better pool resources to handle the small print, the legal fees,
> the market manipulation etc
>
> http://www.ecosystemmarketplace.com/

We don't need them.
> some very convincing arguments are presented by UK think-tank Cornerhouse,
> for instance see the section on Forestry with its focus on Carbon Markets,
> REDD etc
>
> http://www.thecornerhouse.org.uk/resources/results/taxonomy:24

That is a level of the financial world we do not need to be concerned 
about, at least as far as our own personal self-sufficient and 
independent survival is concerned, only concern about what this does to 
others around the world who are vulnerable to such opportunistic,
greedy schemes.