permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

Dick Pierce and everyone else:

I would like to revisit this thread and keep it going as long as 
possible. I have copied below the three main posts on this subject that
Dick submitted in 2009.

Recently, I submitted my thoughts on whether there are any practical 
limits of depth and complexity to a permaculture design. It occured to 
me that others might possibly rewrite, add to or otherwise evaluate this 
docuent, its revisions and new ones that I post as well as following 
with their own essays. This way we might build a collection of open 
source, collaborative documents that would eventually become resources 
of lasting value. Some of this material might be worthy of inclusion in 
a new or revised Permaculture Designer's Manual.

If this idea appeals to them, it would be especially useful if those in 
the list, who conduct PDC's or offer permaculture consultation and 
workshops, would offer criticism of our respective works-in-progress.

As for myself, I have never taken a PDC and am presently beginning to 
take a serious look at and read the main body of literature that 
comprises the primary permaculture knowledgebase that we all access so 
frequently. I have a huge and diverse library with many old and rare 
volumes, so this is an especially pleasant task for me to undertake.

Bill Mollison's Permaculture Designers' Manual is a brilliant work
and really inspiring reading. It should form the core of the modern 
permaculture movement's knowledgebase.

I'd be interested in any feedback on this topic.

LL

On 11/12/2009 4:53 PM, Dick Pierce wrote:

I'd offer the following comments and thoughts on the IP discussion 
around the PC Designer's Manual.

I dearly wish that there was a literature group of the world PC 
Community that was pondering and proposing a PC, or at least a PDC, 
literature strategy and plan - that would include, but update and 
expand, the Permaculture Designer's Manual. It badly needs replacing or 
a new edition, in my opinion. This effort would logically include some 
new authors/owners, some new terms, prices, distribution, copyrights, 
and arrangements with authors of existing works that were used. I also 
wonder if anyone has approached the Mollison interested-parties with a 
query or proposal for an arrangement or permission for alternate 
distribution of any/all of their works, or a request for them to 
formally terminate the copyright. My thoughts follow:

- do not take anything that belongs to another without specific
  permission
- always ask before taking/borrowing something belonging to someone else
- other people's toys are other people's toys

- borrow a copy - from the library (ask them to get it for you on
  inter-lib. loan)
- borrow a copy from a friend (I loaned mine to R. Sass a year ago &
  got it back)

- copyright law allows a reader/copy owner/user to:
- make copies of important excerpts for your own use
- make copies of excerpts as handouts for an educational class
- copyright law is quite liberal on the # of pages, silent on the # of
  copies

- buy a copy for your your local Permaculture group
- start a lending library - ask all to donate extra copies, earlier
  editions of all titles

- write your own, post it, give it away

- re-direct individual and collective energies to a PC project for a
  new, updated version with careful attention to all climate zones,
  re-verifying points/statements with latest scientific data/consensus
  (the "Old Testament" comment really resonated with me).

- publish as a new title; use authoring tools that facillitate
  translation and updates. New authors/owners decide on fee/free,
  pricing, media, and royalties due to referenced works,
  if any, hopefully, with agreement of author of referenced work(s).

- these are intellectual properties - they have owners - owners decide
  on prices and terms. buyers/users should respect those terms or make
  alternate arrangements.

On 11/13/2009 11:51 AM, Dick Pierce wrote:

A great follow-on note - thank you. Appreciate your swinging
the focus to the needs and abilities of low/no income groups, esp. 
outside of the US, to access, read, and pay for a revised/replacement PC 
Design Manual. My intent was to include these folks as a major focus - 
you did it well for us. Thanks.

Any new effort would/should involve investigation/decisions on the best
media (plural - web, net, disk, paper), the major languages, the 
creation or translations, the structure/organization, and the packaging 
(for instance, by eco-region/biome - to cut down on size, cost, price, # 
translations - to max. applicability, availability). It would also 
certainly involve discussion/decisions as to the intelectual property - 
ownership, funding, copyrights, royaltiesand what is public and what is 
private domain.

This adds up to a daunting pre-task on top of an already massive effort, 
but I think it important to put the need/idea out there - so that the 
right group(s), coming along at the right time, with the 
right/sufficient resources, skills and passion will know what is needed. 
Since, to me, a main use of the Design Manual is as a guide and a 
reference for the "72-Hour Permaculture Design Course", perhaps a 
smaller re-designed Design Manual, with the PDC Course as its focus, and 
with perhaps regional companion book[let]s could be envisioned. This 
does put us back to the equally challenging task of updating, rewriting, 
and agreeing on the outline/curriculum guidance for the 72-hour PDC 
Course. My copy of the PC Design Course Handbook [Outline] has no 
visible copyright notice (it's from PC Institute, Tasmania; Mollison, 
Slay, Jeaves, Editors; revised/updatedb 1985).

So much to do - so little time, resource to agree with it and do it. But 
it is valuable, I feel, to have the concept out there for discussion and 
if enough people want/need it bad enough, it will find a way to 
[eventually] happen.

On 11/18/2009 10:43 PM, Dick Pierce wrote:

I'd be happy to join a dialogue on a new thread where the world of PC 
started to get together to get a good set of PDC curriculum guidance - 
core and regional additions - and then a rational, affordable, scalable, 
available set of companion student, instructor, and reference materials 
to go with them. I'm impressed from this discussion, with how much good 
adapted, PDC material there is out there to start/model/borrow from. 
Thanks for that.

The other thread I'd like to follow for both the PC Design Manual and 
its successor is the idea of a fund or foundation or a pricing scheme by 
the publisher to raise funds to allow full price to the authors and then 
reduced/free price to deserving people, programs, regions. (possible 
scenarios: Publisher: $10 of this price goes to the fund for dist copies 
to those in need/with low resources; Foundation: please donate $$$ and 
used books to the cause; Author/publisher - a plan from start to have 
2nd edition have free, downloadable copies in addition to paper on-line 
versions; Author - 1st edition goes on-line for free when 2nd edition 
comes out for a fee in paper or on line).

The PC Design Manual by Bill Mollison will always be on my design 
bookshelf as a good and revered reference. I'd love to buy a new edition 
someday to go along side of it. I now hope that there will be other good 
universal and regional Design Manuals to go along side of them. I also 
hope that everyone, everywhere will have access to design manuals that 
they need, can read, understand and afford.