Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - [permaculture] Permaculture Designer's Manual, revisions, new works on Permaculture.

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Designer's Manual, revisions, new works on Permaculture.
  • Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 00:38:29 -0400


Dick Pierce and everyone else:

I would like to revisit this thread and keep it going as long as possible. I have copied below the three main posts on this subject that
Dick submitted in 2009.

Recently, I submitted my thoughts on whether there are any practical limits of depth and complexity to a permaculture design. It occured to me that others might possibly rewrite, add to or otherwise evaluate this docuent, its revisions and new ones that I post as well as following with their own essays. This way we might build a collection of open source, collaborative documents that would eventually become resources of lasting value. Some of this material might be worthy of inclusion in a new or revised Permaculture Designer's Manual.

If this idea appeals to them, it would be especially useful if those in the list, who conduct PDC's or offer permaculture consultation and workshops, would offer criticism of our respective works-in-progress.

As for myself, I have never taken a PDC and am presently beginning to take a serious look at and read the main body of literature that comprises the primary permaculture knowledgebase that we all access so frequently. I have a huge and diverse library with many old and rare volumes, so this is an especially pleasant task for me to undertake.

Bill Mollison's Permaculture Designers' Manual is a brilliant work
and really inspiring reading. It should form the core of the modern permaculture movement's knowledgebase.

I'd be interested in any feedback on this topic.

LL

On 11/12/2009 4:53 PM, Dick Pierce wrote:

I'd offer the following comments and thoughts on the IP discussion around the PC Designer's Manual.

I dearly wish that there was a literature group of the world PC Community that was pondering and proposing a PC, or at least a PDC, literature strategy and plan - that would include, but update and expand, the Permaculture Designer's Manual. It badly needs replacing or a new edition, in my opinion. This effort would logically include some new authors/owners, some new terms, prices, distribution, copyrights, and arrangements with authors of existing works that were used. I also wonder if anyone has approached the Mollison interested-parties with a query or proposal for an arrangement or permission for alternate distribution of any/all of their works, or a request for them to formally terminate the copyright. My thoughts follow:

- do not take anything that belongs to another without specific
permission
- always ask before taking/borrowing something belonging to someone else
- other people's toys are other people's toys

- borrow a copy - from the library (ask them to get it for you on
inter-lib. loan)
- borrow a copy from a friend (I loaned mine to R. Sass a year ago &
got it back)

- copyright law allows a reader/copy owner/user to:
- make copies of important excerpts for your own use
- make copies of excerpts as handouts for an educational class
- copyright law is quite liberal on the # of pages, silent on the # of
copies

- buy a copy for your your local Permaculture group
- start a lending library - ask all to donate extra copies, earlier
editions of all titles

- write your own, post it, give it away

- re-direct individual and collective energies to a PC project for a
new, updated version with careful attention to all climate zones,
re-verifying points/statements with latest scientific data/consensus
(the "Old Testament" comment really resonated with me).

- publish as a new title; use authoring tools that facillitate
translation and updates. New authors/owners decide on fee/free,
pricing, media, and royalties due to referenced works,
if any, hopefully, with agreement of author of referenced work(s).

- these are intellectual properties - they have owners - owners decide
on prices and terms. buyers/users should respect those terms or make
alternate arrangements.

On 11/13/2009 11:51 AM, Dick Pierce wrote:

A great follow-on note - thank you. Appreciate your swinging
the focus to the needs and abilities of low/no income groups, esp. outside of the US, to access, read, and pay for a revised/replacement PC Design Manual. My intent was to include these folks as a major focus - you did it well for us. Thanks.

Any new effort would/should involve investigation/decisions on the best
media (plural - web, net, disk, paper), the major languages, the creation or translations, the structure/organization, and the packaging (for instance, by eco-region/biome - to cut down on size, cost, price, # translations - to max. applicability, availability). It would also certainly involve discussion/decisions as to the intelectual property - ownership, funding, copyrights, royaltiesand what is public and what is private domain.

This adds up to a daunting pre-task on top of an already massive effort, but I think it important to put the need/idea out there - so that the right group(s), coming along at the right time, with the right/sufficient resources, skills and passion will know what is needed. Since, to me, a main use of the Design Manual is as a guide and a reference for the "72-Hour Permaculture Design Course", perhaps a smaller re-designed Design Manual, with the PDC Course as its focus, and with perhaps regional companion book[let]s could be envisioned. This does put us back to the equally challenging task of updating, rewriting, and agreeing on the outline/curriculum guidance for the 72-hour PDC Course. My copy of the PC Design Course Handbook [Outline] has no visible copyright notice (it's from PC Institute, Tasmania; Mollison, Slay, Jeaves, Editors; revised/updatedb 1985).

So much to do - so little time, resource to agree with it and do it. But it is valuable, I feel, to have the concept out there for discussion and if enough people want/need it bad enough, it will find a way to [eventually] happen.

On 11/18/2009 10:43 PM, Dick Pierce wrote:

I'd be happy to join a dialogue on a new thread where the world of PC started to get together to get a good set of PDC curriculum guidance - core and regional additions - and then a rational, affordable, scalable, available set of companion student, instructor, and reference materials to go with them. I'm impressed from this discussion, with how much good adapted, PDC material there is out there to start/model/borrow from. Thanks for that.

The other thread I'd like to follow for both the PC Design Manual and its successor is the idea of a fund or foundation or a pricing scheme by the publisher to raise funds to allow full price to the authors and then reduced/free price to deserving people, programs, regions. (possible scenarios: Publisher: $10 of this price goes to the fund for dist copies to those in need/with low resources; Foundation: please donate $$$ and used books to the cause; Author/publisher - a plan from start to have 2nd edition have free, downloadable copies in addition to paper on-line versions; Author - 1st edition goes on-line for free when 2nd edition comes out for a fee in paper or on line).

The PC Design Manual by Bill Mollison will always be on my design bookshelf as a good and revered reference. I'd love to buy a new edition someday to go along side of it. I now hope that there will be other good universal and regional Design Manuals to go along side of them. I also hope that everyone, everywhere will have access to design manuals that they need, can read, understand and afford.



  • [permaculture] Permaculture Designer's Manual, revisions, new works on Permaculture., Lawrence F. London, Jr., 06/19/2010

Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page