permaculture

[Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>]

Travis, I can tell you that there are a few members of the Rosaceae family 
that are N-fixing -- Cercocarpus, Purshia, Chamaebatia, even one species of 
Rubus in Indonesia -- but not in the Amelanchier genus, to my knowledge.  
More's the pity.
 
There are more I'm sure that have escaped our attention, and I wouldn't be 
surprised if we see novel emergent properties in all aspects of Nature, 
including nitrogen fixation in plant symbioses, as we crest the global energy 
hill and enter descent.  (Emergent properties in humans not excluded!)
 
Tripp out.

 

The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Sun, 12/27/09, Armed With A Mind Armed With A Mind 
<armedwithamind@hotmail.com> wrote:


From: Armed With A Mind Armed With A Mind <armedwithamind@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Greetings (attempt #7) Question: Do 
Serviceberries Fix Nitrogen?
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 7:29 AM



Thanks, this gives me a better idea. I am continuing to do research but of 
course its better to have real world experience to draw from. The maples are 
mostly going to be grown for syrup production (I hope they reach tapable age 
before I'm too old) but I'd also like to grow maple and other suitable 
hardwoods for long-term high quality wood products. I'm going to contact 
local lumber operations to see whats marketable around here.



I've gone to the forums at permaculture canada and they aren't very active 
yet. I posted a few things and will spread the word about it. 



Keith, in that one video you linked to me with Ian who lives near 
hamilton...He said that serviceberry Amelanchier alnifolia bushes fix 
nitrogen but I haven't come across any other source that verifies that. Was 
he mistaken or did serviceberry just become my favourite native plant?



Travis

> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:24:13 -0500
> From: keithdj@mindspring.com
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Greetings (attempt #7)
> 
> Travis,
> Permaculture Canada seems to be active and with a new webpage at 
> http://www.permaculturecanada.ca/files/
> I'm not a member so I can't view the forum to tell if its very busy or not.
> 
> When planting for coppiced mulch trees they can be very close, as much 
> as 1-2 ft between. Your rotation cycle for the particular diameter of 
> crop you intend to harvest will also determine spacing. For example, I'm 
> coppicing willows for basketry, mulch, screening and fodder with 2 ft 
> spacing in row and 3 ft between rows. It's a small patch with about 12 
> trees that are now about 8-10 ft tall but I will keep them in the 5-8 ft 
> range to maintain screening between us and our neighbors. We also 
> planted several leguminous tree / shrub species right in our garden with 
> the idea that they will be used for mulch, fodder, trellis, and shade. 
> See the article in issue # 40, Coppice-with-Standards: New Forestry with 
> Ancient Roots by Peter Bane. If you don't have that issue you can get a 
> copy for $10US....or you can read it (without the illustrations) at 
> http://www.agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory47.html
> **
> Balsam poplar is very wet tolerant and often found on streambanks so I'd 
> put them in the wet spots if they're not too far from their usepoints. 
> Your planned use of the maples and oaks (e.g., tapping, mushrooms, etc) 
> will indicate whether they can be closer or further from the poplars. If 
> you are rigorous in regularly harvesting the poplar you can have them 
> quite close, but since they kind of like to be a thicket it probably 
> best to keep them at a distance so that you can access the other 
> trees....which is why I keep the willows mostly in their own zone (with 
> the exception of some smaller species like the ornamental japanese and 
> the corkscrews). You probably want to keep them away from leachfields or 
> constructed wetlands to avoid clogging them.
> 
> Still not sure why so many of my emails failed to reach the list and 
> that is still a bit disturbing to me. Lawrence could offer no explanation.
> Keith
> 
> Armed With A Mind Armed With A Mind wrote:
> > Hi Keith, thanks for the links, and for reminding me about Ian Graham. 
> > I've been meaning to contact him after seeing that youtube video a few 
> > weeks ago. I've been sifting through the over 3000 videos on youtube that 
> > come up under a 'permaculture' search. I'd also heard of this fellow from 
> > Orangeville but until now didn't have a contact. I plan to go on an 
> > Ontario farm tour this spring before the gardens become too demanding, 
> > and both of those places are on my wishlist. I'll look into those other 
> > contacts you sent me as well.
> >
> > I've been to the permaculture canada website several times, especially on 
> > the old version that had the forum. Do you know if the permaculture 
> > canada website is still active? It hasn't been updated since the end of 
> > june. I assume thats because those who run the site are too busy but just 
> > wanted to check incase you had some inside info.
> >
> > Would you be able to recommend an optimal spacing between each balsam 
> > poplar if the plan is to chop for mulch and firewood, and do you know how 
> > far away from other hardwoods they should be, say oaks or sugar maples? 
> >
> > Did you figure out why your emails weren't sending to the list or was it 
> > blind luck that it finally got through? I hope this is not a recurring 
> > problem for you. 
> >
> > Travis
> > 
> >> Travis,
> >>
> >> Sounds like you have a beautiful site with much promise. I'd echo the 
> >> recommendations about chinampas.
> >>
> >> Have you linked up with permaculturist / farmer Ian Graham near Hamilton 
> >> (Dundas), Ontario? He's got a 25 acre site there that Peter Bane and I 
> >> have been helping to design over the last three years.
> >>
> >> Keith
> >> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Keith Johnson
> "Be fruitful and mulch apply."
> Permaculture Activist Magazine
> PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47407
> (812) 335-0383
> - Permaculture Activist <http://www.permacultureactivist.net/>
> - Permaculture Trading Post <http://www.permaculturetradingpost.com/>
> - Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting 
> <http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html>
> - Permaculture & Regenerative Design News Blog 
> <http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/>
> - Permaculture Politics Blog <http://permaculturepolitics.blogspot.com/>
> 
> - Transition Indiana <http://transitionindiana.blogspot.com/> - Blog 
> <http://transitionindiana.blogspot.com/>
> 
> - Transition Bloomington <http://transitionbloomingtonind.ning.com/>
> - The Gardeners' World Blog <http://theecosystem.blogspot.com/>
> - Renaissance Farm and Permaculture Center 
> <http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/growers/show/212>
> - Bloomington Permaculture Growers Cooperative 
> <http://bloomingtongrowers.locallygrown.net/>
> - Bloomington Permaculture Guild Blog 
> <http://bloomingtonpermacultureguild.blogspot.com/> - Calendar 
> <http://my.calendars.net/bloomingtonpccal/>
> - Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way 
> <http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower>
> 
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>From slowfoodguy@yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 15:45:55 2009
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I haven't been following the wiki discussion thread -- mostly because I'm a 
total technophobe, and tend to leave that kind of stuff to the people who 
enjoy it -- so if I repeat anyone else's thoughts here, it is unintentional.
 
It occurred to me as I was waking early Christmas morning, that the 
development of a permaculture wiki is comparable to a transition from an 
annual system to a perennial one in a way.  Permacultural thought always 
seems to do this, whether intentionally or otherwise.  Lately I've felt 
overwhelmed by the sheer volume of emails and information arriving in my 
inbox daily, and while I know these links are nutrient dense and probably 
deserving of my time, it is often the case that I just don't have enough to 
explore them, or perhaps I'm involved in an equally interesting topic that 
day and don't wish to be side-tracked.  Even by top-tier information.
 
The listserv is a high energy system that can arrange itself in hodge-podge 
ways, and often doesn't exhibit the orchestrated, organically-developed, 
"webiness" of an established ecosystem...
 
But a wiki, now that's a different animal.  Over time, the information 
residues, the network hyphae, the sheer mind-numbing geometric expansion of 
interconnected knowledge that creates such a system, forms a stable, elegant, 
perennial ecosystem, that presents the precise rabbit-hole one needs at the 
precise time one needs to go down it.  The amount of information coming 
online doesn't slow down, but one can now choose to access that information 
"in season" if you will.  Local wisdom and relevant knowledge can be gleaned 
quickly, and in many cases, without the need to wait for an information web 
to develop around the issue.
 
A truly novel problem -- just like an opportunistic species moving into a 
disturbed site nested within an established ecosystem -- can then draw the 
entire focus of permaculture's hive-mind.  It's really pretty brilliant.
 
Tripp



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 



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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8383577.stm