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permaculture - [permaculture] Eric Kindberg - correspondence (Steve's & mine, 2008) and pictures of his farm implements.

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  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj@intrex.net>
  • To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Eric Kindberg - correspondence (Steve's & mine, 2008) and pictures of his farm implements.
  • Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:54:37 -0500

http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0812&L=sanet-mg&T=0&O=D&P=41600
Subject: Re: Eric Kindberg Dies in China
From: Steve Diver <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:40:55 -0500

> In case you didn't know, Eric was an equipment wizard.
> He was a distributor for the Keyline Chisel Plow,
> also known as the Yeoman's Plow. This is the
> unique subsoiler with paraplow points known as
> the "Wombat" and the "Batswing" (olden day terms).
> Eric used it on pastures to "slice" through sod and
> in vegetable fields to work up beds. I think
> he wrote a paper on how it works to create humus
> at deeper layers in the soil by slicing,
> root re-proliferation, and bacterial slimes.
<...>
> He created a multi-purpose toolbar system that
> could handle the Keyline Plow for working the
> soil, then adapted to a precision seeder with
> guidance wheels, and then adapted to precision
> cultivators on guidance wheels, and then adapted
> to a harvest platform.
<...>
> For your information, I will re-post his last
> correspondence of Sept 21 2008 since it contains
> his current thoughts and activities.

> With respect,

> Steve Diver
> Texas

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Eric Kindberg:

--My thoughts were legume based rotations, how they are
designed and what was in them, 2-3 legumes always causes
larger growth of every species in the mix, especially
the individual appropriated legumes, was a breakthrough.

--Yeomans systems and practices far excell above anything
ever done in terms of an overall system--coincidently, its
great success in the field came with the introduction of
the Ley legume overseeded of hard seeded annual legumes
in 1948. Allan and P. A. said the same.

--The strip forest/forb, small plant area is still the best
of the best to maintain biological diversity on commercial
farms--never accepted outside of Australia.

--The Yeomans' subsoiler is so superior to any field preparation
tool, also applicable to renovating pastures, bed forming and
much else, nothing comes close--and that is straight from the
couple hundred of organic farmers--I quite selling to anyone
but organic farmers after a couple of years and only advertised
to organic farmers.

--Farms without livestock are fighting an up hill battle for
fertility and biotic enhancement, even down to the need for
saliva, let alone the feces/urine of the livestock on the field.
No natural plant life has ever developed, grown without being
oversighted by livestock at some timing. Livestock effectively
grazed, 25,000 lb per acres, computed no matter what size of
herd which then determines the size of the paddock to complete
in one to three days, or before any regrowth is identifiable
is A1. Poultry for insect control, especially in fruits, small
or tree, and nuts, are simple and work.

--On weed control, we are so effective using biotics, timing,
mechanical, and competitive soil building sequence, it is a
dream. For row crop or spaced row planting, our rubber finger
weeder made in China is unbeatable, copied after the Buddingh
which lacked bearings as noted before.

--Fertility can be created from almost anything as you know.

--Pest control is solved generally by fertility, eyes on the
field, some cases mineralization or biological then botanical.
We have neem everywhere. No one but us takes the seeds, crushes
and extracts the oil--but neem is there, for free, lining the roads.

--On the practical level of actual human interference with the
land, plant, animal, water natural resources and design,
the Keyline Scale of Permanence excels.

--Harvesting and post harvest handling among organic farmers
leaves the Central Valley handling as a very expensive alternative --
I could show you the mechanisms I have designed for hydrocooling
in the field in less than 1 minute after harvest, etc.

So, where does this lead one--to sustainable agriculture--un-needing
of synthetic fertility, purchasing off farm produced products
whether for feed or pest control--you do need some machines, most of
can be farmer built, systemic understanding, and close observation--but
these are the characteristics of indigenous peoples and the foundation
of all cultures.

And on to market development and sales, 60% of commercial farming is
marketing. Organic has excelled in that, far outstripping any consumer
based marketing sector in fewer years. Purchasing and marketing
cooperatives are of course the solution to sustainability.

In China I have refined and revised the subsoiler frame for less
expensive, closer connection to tractor, integrating bed forming,
pasture renovation and knife roller for green manure crops, which
incidentally as conveyed by 90 year old Illinois farmers should be
cut back or destroyed before the get above 14 inches.

Have a small acreage near town, some flat land, some side hill
planted to avocados, citrus, banana, pineapple. Row crop veges
on the slight drop land. Gone through all the Chinese tractors,
equipment for small farms. Two worthwhile other than the tractor,
an excellent bed width grain drill with double openers, back bar
roller and leveling board for less than $200 delivered within
China and a small single row, they have two row also pto driven
root digger for $800 delivered within China. Forget about the
rest of implements--rip offs. Only one tractor worth exporting
Dong Fang Hong, now called YTO, and perhaps Foton. Loaders are
outstanding $3225 USD, FOB China--bigger cylinders, but near the
same price as US versions say for my 70hp, 4 wheel drive YTO,
with loader cost FOB factory is $15,000--hard to beat that.
Organic farmers should be cooperatively purchasing in quantity
at even lesser price--more sustainable.

Farming in China is unsustainable--because there is no secure
land tenure, therefore areas row crop, bed farmed per family
is 1/2 an acre with from 1 to 3 acres of side hill for banana,
tree crops in the north, etc. My 4 years living in China has
provided many months of insights, which would take days to write
up on all sectors of society. My major interest is the Li people,
1.3 million who live around me, never defeated by any force in
3000 years, totally living with and of, and within their biological
and cultural biodiversity--there are actually 5 different none
communicable languages with the Li and yet the weaving, superlative
in comparison to any worldwide, relations to nature, many of the
traditions are similar between all 5 language groups.

Am now making an exhibit, 60 photos, 1937 silent movie, some
artifacts for the American Museum of Natural History--there
has never been an exhibit or even discussion of the Li peoples
3000 continuum of sustainabilty.

Where I am this day is defining the domains and the elements
of biological and cultural diversity to document for the
exhibit--perhaps, you have passed over some writings related?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Correspondence with Lawrence London late 2008:
----------------------------------------------

Thanks Larry,

I did not mean to be so brief in writing you at first, but trying to
get too many things done at once. I think you approach to soil fertility
maintenance and inevitably under the bed water management is very good.
I never have used roto tillers after a 2000 acre strawberry, vege, soy
grower in Virginia, can not remember his name, said after 20 years of
subsoiling the hard pan was impermeable and he bought a Yeomans plow
from me, still using it.

>> China a much improved machine, more compact, easily adapted to bed
>> forming, cover crop knife roller and straight subsoiling for pasture
>> renovation, etc. , plus fertility amendments if one desires.

> Do you have any pictures of this you could share?

Will in a couple weeks.

> Links to pix of my farm and tractor & implements.
> Here they are now:
> http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com
> Look partway down under "Equipment Used"
> You'll see the hiller-bedder, which is:
> A Roll-A-Cone implement spec'd by me, i.e. 8' double toolbar plus
> pairs of their 26" smooth-edged disks,

bedding disk, double probably from Ms Bird, the same ones I use in the
pictures.

> 4 of their chisel plow shanks and 2 of their subsoilers (not shown,
> added recently). This total configuration gives me
> the maximum width/maximum height/maximum flatness/maximum depth
> furrow possible with a 70 HP JD 3020 with normal axle
> length and normal spacing of the rear wheels (I think I have them
> almost all the way out. Anyway it makes a raised bed
> that is easy to work by hand, i.e. average person can reach to the
> middle of the bed without falling forward,
> off-balance. My soil can be heavy and difficult and tilth takes a
> long time to achieve, but when it happens the soil is
> really productive and has high fertility and water retention.
> Needless to say the Yeomans plows add considerably to the
> depth of tilth in the beds, and that is an understatement; the
> Yeomans will bury itself up to the toolbar it is attached
> to, and that's over two feet, will dredge up huge chunks of dirt
> needing conditioning. Yoy can see several pix on my
> Yeomans mounted on a Roll-A-Cone single toolbar.

I find in field operation one tends if following Keylines or starting
from the edge of a road or field to bedform almost the same piece of
earth every year. For that reason I only break up the tractor tracks
when planting overall field green manure crops.

I often take the Yeomans shanks and after grazing or discing the cash
crop bed, subsoil it about 4 inches deeper than the tractor treads (the
water in the treads dissipates into the bottom of the bed and makes a
reserve, and if there is too much so as to saturate the bed, if the
sides of the bed are permeable, the excess water flows out leaving the
plants some degree of unsaturated growing medium), plant an individual
bed to green manures, always at least 3 legumes and some grass/forb
family plants, let it grow 14 inches and destroy for the next cash crop.

I have found an outstanding grain drill in China, very cheap just bed
width, 44 inches, on the top. Delivered to me here cost about $263 USD.
Double disk openers, leveling board, compacting tube roller and a
standing board that fits in back to load grain. Also, has two sets of
disks, larger like corn cut away disks that I guess were meant for
working up the tractor tread of small tractors that were within the disk
width and another interesting disk seen on right side, two sets that are
two small disks about 6 inches in diameter that would work with a finger
weeder I manufacture to slightly hill maturing plants.

> This is a perfect arrangement. A 70 HP machine cannot pull more that
> this; 4 shanks would be too much for new ground, OK for tilled,
> conditioned ground.
> Your pix of your macines/implements are fascinating; they look very
> professional. I will study them carefully to see if
> there are any features I might need on either on my implments. Yoy
> might want to utilize some of the features of my
> hiller-bedder on your current implements you're building in China.
> Are you planning to export? It might be a good thing.
> Maybe Market Farm Implement in Friedans, Pennssylvania might be
> interested in importing and selling them. They, at
> present are the only reliable Yeomans dealer; you can usually get
> whatever you need from them.

Allan Yeomans is dealing with them, which is good to have a US domestic
supply. I would rather work directly with some farmer who uses the
equipment commercially and let those be dealers.

> So what brought you to China and what are you doing over there? What
> area are you located in?

I live on Hainan Island as far south in China as you can get. Came to
find a better tropical location to research plants, animals and farm
/forestry systems and techniques. perfect climate here, can grow
anything from peaches to papaya. Have a farm, bed and breakfast and
working towards opening an organic green market/restaurant in this town
of 35,000, 10,000 students and new condos bringing another 15,000
retirees from the North of China over the next 12 months.

> I have a big shop, fully equipped machine shop, woodworking shop and
> welding (pulsed/straight mig & tig), acetylene,
> plasma cutter and a Miller 250 mig plus a small blacksmithing
> facility. I am planning to make some human powered
> wheeled machines for cultivation and weeding and seedbed prep for my
> raised beds (a much needed tool) and an array of
> gardening hand tools, lifetime, quality, special purpose for market
> farmers; I will build some of these from recycled
> machine parts, tractor and implement parts and used circular saw
> blades, large and small. I am getting ready to build a
> 4 wheeled (20-26" tires) push tillage device to scarify the surface
> of my raised beds prior to planting. I will make
> this with interchangeable tooling, weeding, cultivating/scarifying,
> furrowing, etc.

Encourage you to do so, but the draft necessary to do any amount of beds
will make the user a he-man in short time, or a nay-sayer. Worth trying.

I think the need for small to moderate size vege/fruit farms Larry is in
harvesting. I can farm 12 acres all myself except for transplanting in
field and harvesting. The way I figure it I have to net $25 per hour for
every hour from the beginning of harvesting until delivery to make
decent money. On many crops I earn up to $55 per hour and that each of
the managing adults working earn this amount--if you have two managers,
they both earn the same.

On labor, the more people you hire, that work efficiently at harvesting,
the more money the managers will make per hour, given on balance market
prices not high market prices, which of course are a windfall.
Harvesting is the key, a maker or breaker, given the farm is efficient
in biotic, labor, mechanical and marketing.

I build a three point hitch hydrocooling, washing unit, basically a
stainless steel box with the bottom being able to be emptied
quickly, using bilge pumps for recirculation of the water that does a
wonderful job for 10-14 commercial boxes and then you need to dump the
water and refill. That and other little techniques, even a commercial
washer like Garden Farm sells simplifies. Transportation from field is
all done on front forks or can place many boxes surrounding
hydrocooler-- run off of tractor batteries.

Back on the farm in Iowa sits a 1910 Mc Cormick horse drawn, bed width
plus a little, rotary hoe. At 5-6 mph it does everything needed if you
catch the weeds early before planting. I also have tried Buddingh's
basket weeders, but they are not as good. And, if I really want more
disturbance, I use two tine Lillistons mounted so they cross the bed top.

I have old 5 foot wide Brillions that I use to recompact the bed after
the weed die off. But really using the weeder systems I use, a rubber
finger, steel tine like Buddingh finger weeder and my home made adaption
to bed width of Lillistons, I virtually have no weeds after a three or
so plantings on the field.

You know the key to all weeding is never to go below 3/4 to 1 inch into
the top of the bed--never any deeper. Only some perennial weeds will
come up and you catch them with the Buddingh or Lilliston if you are row
cropping the bed or pull them by hand if the bed is solid planted like
for mesclune.

I have a small book Agriculture Labor and Its Effective Use, the
National Press, John H. Mac Gillivray and Robert A Stevens,107 pages ,
printed in 1964 that has many hand tools and hand accessories you might
find interesting to think about marketing.

And I have an outstanding book on weed control written by a guy I met
from Lithuania and published by FAO in house, but they would not fund
him to make it available for peasants--guess they did not want to upset
the Chemical inbalance.

I do not know where you can find a copy, but you will.


Best, eric

I hope to market these tools and machines on the Web and through
gardeners lists and a few local and mail order companies.

[From a previous message:]
Here is the bed former I built since 1985 and sold.
The Hawaiian land is the first time tilled for 20 years straight out of
brush; the lower three in Iowa 1997;
the lower picture in Arkansas 1988.

Now, I build in China a much improved machine, more compact, easily adapted
to bed forming,
cover crop knife roller and straight subsoiling for pasture renovation, etc. ,
plus fertility amendments if one desires.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Here are pictures Eric sent me of the implements he designed, built and used
in the field over the years:]

http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/2008/12/eric-kindberg-pictures-of-his-farm.html

LFLondon




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