permaculture

[Douglas Barnes <duckrace2000@yahoo.ca>]

Hello,

I've have the same concern about this myself. I used to live in Tokyo and 
dioxin fallout was and is a concern there. I asked Bill Mollison about 
rainwater harvesting in this sort of environment and he said that the only 
thing you can do in areas of dioxin contamination is move. Ultimately, I did 
just that.

As far as dioxins go, if they are a pollutant in your area, you can't do much 
to avoid them. They will be in local produce and in local water. There will 
be other particulate matter too - fallout from diesel engines, from industry, 
etc. I had hoped that I could get some of Tokyo's rainwater tested via a 
contact at the agricultural university in Tokyo, but it never materialised.

For Tokyo, one would be making a comparison for which rainwater collection 
system would be cleaner: rooftop or city reservoir. I've walked around the 
Saiyama reservoir in Tokorozawa (though I wasn't supposed to) and being a 
dam, it just harvests rainfall. I'll formulate the question of which is safer 
by including what I saw in and around the reservoir: Is it safer to harvest 
water off of a steel or clay roof, or is it safer to let it filter though the 
ground and all the appliances, batteries and old cars that the residents 
living around the reservoir illegally dumped? 

 Douglas JE Barnes 
EcoEdge Design 
http://www.ecoedge.ca
dbarnes@ecoedge.ca



----- Original Message ----
------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:56:54 -0300
From: Guilherme Neves Castagna <guilherme@permacultura.org.br>
Subject: [permaculture] rainwater and potability in large cities
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <4845CC36.5010801@permacultura.org.br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Saludos ermanos,

    Jody T put up a question on whether rainwater could be safely used 
for drinking, and more. Question that comes up to my mind is, suppose 
I'm in Tokyo, New York, Mexico City, or Sao Paulo (cities with over 
10million ppl), what will the rainwater drops collect along the way that 
will turn it inadequate to human consumption (other than the drop in 
pH)? Heavy metals, sulphur dioxide, what else? Has anyone tested 
rainwater for potability in similar situations? Can I eventually turn it 
potable through the use of reed beds, sand filters, and the like? Some 
friends of mine live in Sao Paulo (Brazil) and are devising alternatives 
to the impending failure on the public water distribution systems, and 
rainwater is their only option.

    I sincerely appreciate your comments on this topic...

Cheers!

-- 
Gui Castagna - Design Ecol?gico
fone/fax: +55 (12) 3832-1476
celular:  +55 (12) 9702-9203
Ubatuba/SP
Brasil

Web: www.livrariatapioca.net +
     www.permear.org.br
Skype: guilherme.castagna



-----------------------------



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Hi all

To follow on from the debate on this subject within this list:
The design of permaculture education will be the main focus for the next
International Convergence in 2009, as was agreed in Brazil at the
convergence last year. The Chaordic Permaculture Institute has volunteered
to host a space for discussing this subject in preparation. This is the
web address:

http://permacultureinstitute.pbwiki.com/Education

The address will be posted on permaculture email lists and webforums
(fora?) worldwide, as well as the important printed publications. There
are sections in Spanish and Portugese on the site as well, securing
greater inclusivity. There's also space for sections in further languages,
if anyone feels inspired to produce one.

A lot of interesting and useful information and opinion was posted on this
here list, and I would encourage everybody with a view on the subject to
post it there. It seems important to have this debate as transparent and
inclusive as possible. As we are a global community and, even if we may
not agree on everything, it is good to know where everybody stands. If
we're going to evolve the design, let's first get a survey done.


All the Best
Tomas Remiarz

---------------------------------
---------------------------------

Tomas Remiarz - GreenLand Services

Ecological Restoration
Woodland Creation and Management
Permaculture Design and Practice