permaculture

["Lisa Rollens" <rollens@fidnet.com>]

Hi All,

I seem to have encountered conflicting data and wondered if anyone out there 
had any experience, one way or the other, with this.  In Edible Forest 
Gardens, in the list of plants negatively affected by juglones, on page 555, 
Castanea spp. are listed (chestnuts).

Yet, on another website:  
http://www.npr.org/programs/talkingplants/why/2002/walnutguide.html , 
Castanea spp. are listed as "tolerant" of black walnut toxicity.

So, does anyone have any real experience with both trees together.  I have 
several chestnut seedlings and want to plant them in my yard, which is full 
of mature black walnuts.  But I definitely don't want to lose the 
chestnuts...or retard their growth.  

Please, share your experiences, if you have them.  Thanks!

Lisa, in the Mo Ozarks, USA
>From lflj@intrex.net  Sun May 18 18:26:20 2008
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] save the bees ban the pesticides
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 08:56:22 -0700
From: Ahmad Mahdavi <bugmahda@YAHOO.COM>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

Dear Dr. Cummins,
   Hello,
   Thank you for your enlighting information, about allelochemicals I would 
not call them necessarily toxic but rather
they are simply secondary plant metabolits with very important role in 
herbivory/ tritrophic level.  For example I found
that they induce insecticide metabolizing enzymes in insects as well as in 
many other forms of herbivors.  In that study
I found that different glycoalkaloids from different solanaceous plants play 
a very diverse effect on insecticide
metabolizing enzymes (in my study cytochrome P-450 based MFOs in Colorado 
potato beetle, a very resistant and
heterogeneous insect) and specially a strong effect on SR (Synergistic 
Ratios).  As you mentioned perhaps we need to
increase the genetic heteroginicity of honey bees to make them more resistant 
against environmental stressors in
general.  I have good ideas about testing these complex factors eg. 
insecticides, other pesticides, viruses and of
course plant allelochemicals on honey bees if a lab here in
  Canada/ US support this.
   Thanks again,
   With best regards,
   Ahmad Mahdavi,
   Guelph, ON.

jcummins <jcummins@uwo.ca> wrote:
   Hello Dr. Ahmad Mahdavi,
Thank you for the interesting comments. I would appreciate your
clarification of allelochemicals effects on insects. My understanding
is: allelochemicals are toxic plant chemical: a chemical produced by
one plant that is toxic to another. Your findings seem striking and
certainly should be tested further.
Also your comments on inbreeding are well taken. The famous teacher of
genetics James Crow of the University of Wisconsin published on the
population genetics of inbreeding in the honey bee 58 years ago and he
is still as active in populations genetics research as he was when I
studied at Wisconsin 50 years ago. Mating between a Queen bee and
closely related drones reduces both the size and the disease resistance
of the colonies. Bees ,like other insects, have humoral and cellular
immune systems but these systems have not been exploited in a breeding
program. There are both behavioural traits such as mating while flying
and genetic traits which limit inbreeding. It would be surprising if
commercial bee keepers were unaware that bees have to out breed to some
degree to prevent inbreeding depression.
A bee genome draft sequence was published in 2006 ( Honeybee Genome
Sequencing Consortium Insights into social insects from the genome of
the honeybee Apis mellifera.Nature. 2006 Oct 26;443(7114):919-20). It
appeared that genes devoted to the immune system of the bee and to
chemical detoxification were relatively few while genes for social
behaviour was relatively greater than flies.
Considering the importance of honey bees (they are required to produce
one out of each three bites of food that we eat) their relatively
fragile nature should be given more consideration by those who produce
food. sincerely, joe cummins
Ahmad Mahdavi wrote:
> Honey bee CCD(Colony Collapse Disorder)
>
>
> Some years ago during my research here in Guelph I found very strong 
> relationship/
>
> correlation between effects of insecticides and plant allelochemicals on 
> insects, now what
>
> I would like to reccomend is that testing any insecticides (or other 
> pesticides) on bees will
>
> be accompanied by looking on the plants that bees get the nectar/ pollen 
> etc. Pesticide
>
> pollution or wider than that chemical pollution that now is everywhere 
> could be a playing
>
> factor in CCD but this should be scientifically tested. It seems that honey 
> bees as a
>
> homogenous species is more sensitive to environmental stressors in general. 
> Perhaps this
>
> could be related to inbreeding for a long time.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Ahmad Mahdavi,
>
> Sustainable agriculture and environment,
>
> Guelph, Ontario.
>
> bugmahda@yahoo.com.

> jcummins wrote:
> Germany has imposed a moratorium on the use of certain neonicotinoid and
> carbamate seed treatment insecticides. This action was taken because of
> a direct effect of the pesticides on the honey bee in the face of a
> decline in the pollinator. The response of regulators was rational but
> one that will likely bring tears to the eyes of Bayer. Interestingly,
> the synergism between pesticide and fungal parasite or virus has not yet
> been taken into account.