permaculture

[Marimike6@cs.com]

In reply to this conversation,

>I think this author is clueless. How much rainforest is falling to produce 
more sugarcane?

>None, in fact. The sugarcane growing areas are a long way from the
rainforests, as that author said. Rainforest are being destroyed through
illegal logging and burning to provide cattle ranches.

...that has been the pattern in Brazil. But the forests of Southeast Asia are 
fast disappearing to be replaced by oil palm. Apparently more lucrative than 
beef. And they're now taking the Congolese forest too, with oil palm to 
follow 
the logging phase.

That would still leave the Orinoco Basin pretty much intact. But 
unfortunately it is underlaid by the world's largest deposit of tar sands-- a 
field that 
pretty much sits under the whole area. And since it's a sheet deposit it can 
only be depleted by stripping off the entire overburden.

I would like to join you in the hope that mankind will have the decency to 
collapse without destroying the planet for everyone and everything else. But 
I 
don't think that's how stripping the place bare actually works. I think we as 
a 
species are bright enough to figure out how to totally consume every 
conceivable resource... and that we'll do so until even the richest among us 
start to 
run short of stuff before they begin to figure out why we should save 
whatever's left.

Why? Because there are two kinds of people. And the kind that "make shit 
happen" are busy starting wars, using up resources, carving up what's left of 
the 
commons to put in their own pockets, and in general getting even more rich 
and 
powerful. While the kind who know better are peaceful, quiet, minimal impact 
types and leave very small footprints.

That's why there's no serious stopping power on earth today. The people like 
us are just using moral suasion-- and we're up against forces that can't be 
morally swayed. As long as they are able to gain, they will continue doing so.