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  • From: rrandall1 <rrandall1@houston.rr.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Railroad ties and gardens
  • Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:03:48 -0500

Decades ago I worked in pesticide research. Like many products, it is easier to sell something if you only report flattering research.

It should be obvious I would think that any treatment of wood that reduces fungal activity would be destructive to the soil food web basis of fertility, if not all life. Poisons are engineered to kill cells, and they are almost impossible to prove safe. Moreover the cost of such research is very high and exposes companies to increased liability if they suppress information. CCA has saturated the country with arsenic and some studies show it to be toxic. If you want to research pesticides, you will find plenty to worry about peer reviewed and scientific at the two sites below.

The case against CCA--chromated cupric arsenate is extensive and can be found at http://www.pesticide.org/factsheets.html (look down the page for the right one in pdf). For creosote, do a product search at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Search_Products.jsp#ProdSearch. Both are considered hazardous wastes in the state of Texas and may not be legally composted. A railroad spokesman 15 years ago told me they strongly recommended against railroad tie use in gardens.

Wood is short-lived in many gardens. Either get use to that or use something that doesn't rot like rock, clay, or concrete rubble.

Bob Randall

On Apr 23, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Marimike6@cs.com wrote:

LBSaltzman says


This paragraph bothers me.

"Some organic gardening publications have claimed that these garden uses are
unsafe. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has approved the use of
CCA-treated wood for gardens. (Tests have confirmed that arsenic does not leach
from timbers used in gardens. Soil was collected from near timbers that had been
place from 6 months to 9 years.)"

It gives me the willies too. A couple of years ago we had a death in NC from
someone standing to close to a drum where he was burning old pieces of
pressure treated. There's more arsenic in that wood than you would like to think
about.

And it may well be that there is more danger to creosoted timber than I
realize. But I don't think it has been demonstrated yet that it poses a hazard to
human health. Maybe I'm wrong in that.

Meanwhile I won''t eat any. But I wouldn't mind picking up and stacking
railroad ties. I would wear a mask when sawing them. And I'd wash my hands before
lunch.
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  • Re: [permaculture] Railroad ties and gardens, rrandall1, 05/14/2007

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