permaculture

[David Riley <reuselumber@yahoo.com>]

The 'discussion' surrounding Religion, New Agers, Ishmaelism (Takers vs. 
Leavers), good, bad and government....and we wonder why this isn't included 
in Permaculture as a system design component or function. The PDC would most 
likely have to be extended to 3 weeks if religio/spiritual ideals were to be 
included.

A thread that I notice running through the many emails is a tendacy to mimic 
in our opinion, the aspects of what we don't like about the other view. Umm, 
that may sound wonky, I 'm trying to get it straight here. It seems like 
everyone wants to be right, er,  Dominating opinions are what I like least 
about belief systems. Kindness, giving, compassion are what attract me to 
belief systems, other belief systems than mine. 

Is there a commonality in behaviour within all beliefs that are either 
attractive or repelling? Is that biological or zoological reaction? Perhaps I 
like to be on the edge of the systems because it's so philosophically 
fertile...

I gots no attachment to the pop theory that I crapped on about...just working 
through the discussion in my mind, about these emails. No offence intended 
anywhere.

Lastly, one thing I heard awhile back concerns the Ego. The Ego creates 
separation in order to distance itself from others; to remain alive the Ego 
must remain detached and distant.

Domination seems the conventional cultural model; Dominating language, 
stances, opinions, actions. There are folks out there that practice the 
opposite of that model...may I be strong enough to be one.

Dominantly yours,

David



Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:47:51 -0800
From: "Ben Martin Horst" 
Subject: [permaculture] Christianity and permaculture (was: The main
 reasonwhy Newagers dominatepermaculture.)


On 1/30/07, Lawrence F. London, Jr.  wrote:
> What Christian bashing?

That would be the Christian bashing where, responding to a
well-reasoned and expressed post, you tarred each and every Christian
with the same brush: the stereotypical anti-abortion, anti-stem cell
research, anti-evolution, Bible-banging,
from-the-pulpit-hell-and-brimstone-preaching militant,
uncritically-Bush-supporting buffoon. This is a stereotype, and it
isn't critical thought. Someone might as well go off on you or me as a
man for the long, sordid, and continuing history of oppression of
women. Would it be justified? Probably. All of us men share in that
ugly legacy. But would it be helpful in the context of this list? I
doubt it.

Something that's been lost in this thread is that whatever the label
is for a particular belief system/spirituality/religion, there's
always at least as much variation within that group as there is
between groups.....[clipped]
-Ben


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:04:17 -0500
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." 
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Christianity and permaculture (was: The
 main reasonwhy Newagers dominatepermaculture.)


Ben Martin Horst wrote:
> On 1/30/07, Lawrence F. London, Jr.  wrote:

> That would be the Christian bashing where, responding to a
> well-reasoned and expressed post, you tarred each and every Christian
> with the same brush: the stereotypical anti-abortion, anti-stem cell

You must be projecting. I only commented on the two groups below.

> research, anti-evolution, Bible-banging,
> from-the-pulpit-hell-and-brimstone-preaching militant,
> uncritically-Bush-supporting buffoon. This is a stereotype, and it

I only referred to the Catholic Church and the conservative fundamentalist 
Christians
both trying to get a foothold in our government, pass their repressive 
legislation and
appoint their judges in a way as to have as long lasting effect on our 
society as possible.
This is what WE in the USA and Canada are facing at this time and for 
sometine into the future.
Or didn't you notice? They are slick as dogshit in promoting their agenda and 
weaseling into government
to control YOUR life according to their sleazy, ignorant standards. Think 
they like PC?
and independent sustainable farming, small farms, family farms?  And they are 
into big money. Pawns of the
worst corporate behavior imaginable. In the name of their holy crusade. It is 
they who would take
your land by imminent domain to make way for some mega church unless some 
other thugs beat them to it
for a sports stadium or convention center. Its all about money and they are 
into that as much
as their religion.









 
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