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Re: [permaculture] Response to Shawn

From: scakya@lobo.net
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Response to Shawn
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:15:27 -0600

Hi Shawn,
I get what you're saying and that's ok. I'm in the process of teaching many local folks how to do the things I do in our environment using varied methods including permaculture, but all organic and sustainable. That includes setting up local activities that benefit the community as a whole(orchards in town)through events such as "Run for the Trees and use of community service folks for cleaning up town lots for future garden space and gleaning from local farms where excess produce is usually left to rot or for livestock .
Back to gold. With only about 3500 MT sold a year Gold would seem not as important as some would have it. The market today is tenous due to the fact it likely being manipulated again for the benefit of a given few. Yes, there is much used in manufacturing of electonics(more goes to that than jewelry) but when a handful of countries are actively buying gold to shore up their weakening economies, one does have to wonder.
Because our US currency is a fiat currency with no actual value other than what us dummies have placed on it(majority of US and Canadian citizens) it will be interesting to see what happens as it keeps declining in value. Most of the world's currency's backed by precious metals are doing well when it comes to economic stability-they have something to fall back on. Here we have a house of cards and it is teetering somewhat precariously at this point as there is nothing holding it up. And given the knowledge that the Federal Reserve is not a US entity but owned by a group of wealthy families and a handful of European banks waiting to swoop in for the kill when it appears our econmomy has crashed-they have all missed one point.
Our econmomy although it may seem based on big corporations, is actually broken into many, many micro-economies across the nation. It is layered in such a manner that is softens the many blows thrown at it as the people in these micro-ecomies adapt to change. What is happening now that the fellas in suits on Wall Street can't begin to imagine. People are learning to be more self-sufficient and their purchases are reflecting that.
How many people wake up each day that Uncle Sugar will just as soon take from them their homes or abandon them to horrific conditions like those seen in Hurricane Katrina? The mention of a wealthy man in CA sending police in to kick urban farmer's off "his" land affected not only those who had worked so hard to create a green and alive area in the city, but many thousands more who saw what was happening and that it could happen to them.
For me, I am not only bringing useful life back to my land but at the same time teaching the ranchers and other farmer's how our planet's hide needs to be tended to. People might question why I'm planting better than 1200 trees over the next few years in an edible landscape spanning 25 acres, but when they see me at the food pantry unloading my loaded ole p-up or in yet another picture on the front page of one of the local papers with the caption "Earthwalker Farm donates giant pumpkin" in response to a benefit auction needed to help a domestic abuse shelter-you know my part is being done.
You see, you can't eat gold, silver or oil and most everything done here is based on what can been done to help our planet and her people.
Pat Maas
Earthwalker Farm

Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:27:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean Maley <semaley@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Response to "Prepare for disaster"
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20060617212702.41320.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- scakya@lobo.net wrote:

Great piece Harold,
As one who is linked closely to East coast traders and behind the scene folks in DC, know you are on the right track-you've hit a bulls eye in fact.
But, instead of fear, knowledge of how to and what to is important for survival in uncertain times.

Working in the financial mines today, there is absolutely no talk about gold.
In fact, they have
been investing in oil with the thought that big oil exploits peak oil
paranoia and there is a race
to sit on the remaining oil reserves (diamond industry thinking). The talk
about real estate
investments has subsided. Some have bought property where they go on ski
vacations, but this
seems to be a practical matter.
When reading about economic theory, I tend to find demonizing and trash talk
to be tiresome. I
shouldn't have to read for hours before getting to a meaningful premise. The
economic system is a
pyramid scheme, based upon controlling the means of production. For a simple
demonstration on how
this works, play the monopoly game. If you can control Park Place and
Boardwalk before another
player can control one of the lesser monopolies, you tend to win the game
more easily. Monopoly
is based upon Henry George economic theory. Getting bogged down in this gold
and paper theory
misses the bubble bust cycle that predates even gold currency in ancient
times. Besides, gold
isn't very nutritious, too soft to make shelter, and too heavy for making good clothing (useless).
With or without gold, oil, or the US government, there will always be
poverty, so long as the
pyramid scheme continues. Yes, all those starving people really are
starving, but no it isn't
because food is in short supply, just that a man with a gun guards the food
unless the starving
submit to the hierarchy. This mirrors the most ancient of "history" that we
know: most work for
a few privileged, and well-fed, aristocrats. To escape the hierarchy, we
must counter it with
it's opposite, called a rhizome. In doing this, we must remember our current
hierarchy context
and maintain a shield for our rhizome. Establishing a church or emulating
the top of the pyramid,
business structures, accomplishes a form of a shield. Fundamental to all of
this involves holding
land within the hierarchy context, which is sufficient to "make a living".
Hierarchy causes us to loose trust in our friends and neighbors, which is
reflected in the gold
collapse theory and identifies gold theory as intrinsically hierarchy
culture. In our rhizome
culture, we seek collaboration and cooperation towards "making a living
together". The hierarchy
culture collapses when sufficient labor can't be found.
Wealth => Land, Labor, Improvement
Hierarchy:
Everyone starts the hierarchy game with equal holdings, but not everyone can
own Wall Street, so
those with less useful land get stuck in a dilemma of working for the man or starving.
Rhizome:
Everyone starts with the assumption of "making a living" with available land.
If the land is
insufficient where you are, you must find land that can support you or
improve the land where you
live (permaculture?). Our monkeysphere limits us to groups of 150 members
"making a living
together", called tribes, so land holdings vary in size according to the ability to support life. Labor isn't a matter of producing wealth for the landholder, but rather for supporting yourself
and your tribe.
The transition:
1. Establish a tribe (make a living together).
2. Set goals to purchase land/shelter transitioning from hierarchy
3. Establish your range/territory
4. Improve your land
5. Keep enough hierarchy business to pay the taxes
6. be sociable with your neighbors
7. Share your surpluses to help other tribes

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:07:07 -0700
From: Bill McDorman <bm@seedsave.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] borage
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <C0B9E73B.E397%bm@seedsave.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Pop one of those delicious little cucumber-flavored flowers in your mouth
every time you walk by the borage. Always helps me tune into the garden
vibration from the inside out. Look for bugs inside, first!
bill
on 6/17/06 13:10, Paul Kosuth at prkosuth@ll.net wrote:
HI all,
Does anyone have any good insight or ideas for the use of borage (
Borago officinalis) both in the garden and on the table. I know a bit,
but I would like some details especially for use as food.
Thanks,
Paul
prkosuth@ll.net
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:09:39 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the
21st Century Lecture Fri June 30 7pm and Conference Sat & Sun July 1 &
2 Santa Barbara Ca and LA, SF, Portland]
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4494C3F3.3020506@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st Century Lecture
Fri June 30 7pm and Conference Sat & Sun July 1 & 2 Santa Barbara Ca and
LA, SF, Portland
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:25:55 -0700
From: Santa Barbara Permaculture Network <sbpcnet@silcom.com>
Hello
just wanted to let you know about our conference "
*Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st Century Lecture Fri June
30 7pm and Conference Sat & Sun July 1 & 2 Santa Barbara California
USA " July 17 Los Angles CA and July dates for San Francisco and Portland
*wes roe and margie bushman
santa barbara permaculture network www.sbpermaculture.org
<http://www.sbpermaculture.org/>
See details of program below
Hi Everyone.-
*Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st Century: How to Change the
Paradigm of Emergency Disaster Relief & Development to a Model of Life
Affirming Assistance* is the big event for Santa Barbara Permaculture
Network this year on *June 30, July 1, 2, 2006*.
As the title suggests, it tackles a huge subject. As Americans we have
often thought of emergency relief in terms of sending aid to other
countries, after Hurricane Katrina we also see a need to know how to
respond in a better way to our own natural disasters. *Natural
disasters, wars, famines, how does the human family respond to each
others needs during these overwhelmly stressful times? What new models
can we create to assist each other better?* Come listen to those who
have been doing this work for many years with permaculture as a
tool---with not only immediate emergency relief, but longer term
recovery and development efforts, and land care strategies that
permaculture can provide. Geoff Lawton, Nadia Abu Yahia and Andrew Jones
are the key speakers, please see below for bios and more info about the
event.
We are looking for *people interested in hosting some of the speakers
and others attending, contact us if you'd like to join in the fun*, have
a guest from another part of the world visit with you in Santa Barbara.
<<<
Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st Century
How to change the Paradigm of Emergency Disaster Relief and Development
to a Model of Life Affirming Assistance
3 Day Conference & Workshop
June 30, July 1 & July 2, 2006
**
*Fri June 30, 7pm
*Lecture with Geoff Lawton, Permaculture Research Institute, Australia
Fe Bland Auditorium, Santa Barbara City College, West Campus, $15
*Sat & Sun July 1 & 2* (Sat, 9-5, Sun, 9-4)
Morning Plenary Sessions, Afternoon Workshops
with Geoff Lawton, Nadia Lawton, and Andrew Jones, and including Panels
discussions on Rebuilding Local Economies with Fair Trade Companies and
Local Residents who went to help in New Orleans and more.
*Cost:
*Cost $160 Two Days , $90 per day or *(Payments before June 8 - $120)*
Student $120
For more info and registration Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
margie@sbpermaculture.org 805-962-2571, www.sbpermaculture.org
<http://www.sbpermaculture.org/>
*Checks made to Santa Barbara Permaculture Network PO Box. 92156 Santa
Barbara, CA 93190
Location:
*Fe Bland Auditorium, Business Communication Forum (BC Forum) Santa
Barbara City College, West Campus 721 Cliff Drive, Santa Barbara, CA
*Speakers:
*Nadia Abu Yahia (Lawton) was born in the Dead Sea Valley in Jordan. She
learned traditional ways of land use from her father, an expert farmer
and herbal healer of Palestinian, Bedouin descent. She later went on to
complete her permaculture diploma in design, education and site
development and has recently become a registered permaculture teacher.

Andrew Jones, Australian with a background in ecology, permaculture,
humanitarian aid and international development. Past 15 years has worked
in a humanitarian aid and development context in the Middle East , the
Pacific, Asia , Europe and the United States . With CARE International,
the International Rescue Committee, Counterpart International and
SurfAid International., United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in
Macedonia and Albania , and with the United Nations Environment Program
most recently in Indonesia in a post-tsunami recovery context.
(www.fullcirclellc.com <http://www.fullcirclellc.com/>) .
Geoff Lawton, one of the world's foremost experts in ?permaculture,?
providing consulting, designing, teaching and project implementation for
clients that include private individuals, groups, communities,
governments, aid organizations, non-government organizations and
multi-national companies. Lawton has served clients in 17 different
countries, including Jordan , Iraq , Egypt , USA , Mexico , Macedonia ,
Vietnam , Costa Rica , Brazil , Ecuador , Peru , England , Denmark ,
Australia and the South Pacific. Permaculture Research Institute
(www.permaculture.org.au <http://www.permaculture.org.au/> ).
*QUOTES:
*"Aid is a necessary but delicate affair; some forms of aid can produce
dependency, facilitate further inequities in a society, destroy or impair
cultural values, decrease the yields of the environment, upset balance
nutritional habits, or actually destroy sustainable local ecologies or
agricultural systems."
/Bill Mollison Permaculture Design Manual
/"Overseas experience has shown that every dollar spent on disaster
mitigation helps to save three dollars in later disaster response and
recovery. Indonesian experience shows a bigger ratio of around 7 to 1.
Overseas experience has also shown that it takes a community between
four to twenty years to recover from a major disaster, depending largely
on its level of preparedness."
/Yayasan Indonesian Development of Education and Permaculture Community
Based Disaster Management (CBDM) Kit
/www.idepfoundation.org <http://www.idepfoundation.org/>
"War is a serious destroyer of sustainability and social coherence, and
the genocide which followed the war in Cambodia further reduced
sustainability. Bombing destroyed natural resources, cultivated areas
and cultural heritage. .
War also reduces the ability of a country to withstand undesirable
foreign influences....Foreign and disinterested world monetary
organizations direct fiscal policy and reconstruction with no regard to
sustainable outcomes, and blame the country for its poverty or inability
to cope with their decisions. Sustainability finds itself in crisis and
crisis requires relief."
/Sustainability in a Worn Torn Nation/, Permaculture Projects in
Cambodia, Rosemary Morrow , Hopedance Magazine www.hopedance.org
<http://www.hopedance.org/>
"In the aid context when things are really rough you get the sense that
despair is almost a luxury that you can?t afford because certainly the
people around you for the most part are not wallowing in self-pity.
They?re getting on with their lives and doing their best. It?s
remarkable and humbling to work with people who are the focus of natural
disasters or war and conflict because what you often see is an extremely
high degree of dignity".
/Andrew Jones Unpublished Interview for Permaculture & Sustainable Aid
for the 21st Century Conference

/"I think the paradigm of aid and development is going to change
drastically in the 21st century, because it needs to. Partly what we?re
dealing with, the reality of aid and development as it?s currently
practiced in broad senses is partly a result of having these massive
global imbalances in wealth distribution, technological resources, and
trade benefits. "
/Andrew Jones Unpublished Interview for Permaculture & Sustainable Aid
for the 21st Century Conference

/"So I think that homegrown aid and regionally-based aid and networks
between people are going to be the things that really grow and thrive as
we?re coming into a network age. I think that the ability for people to
connect and work together as equals is of huge importance because that?s
actually going to be the most effective way of working with folks who
are in situations of stress and facing challenges. "
/Andrew Jones Unpublished Interview for Permaculture & Sustainable Aid
for the 21st Century Conference
/*Co-Sponsors :
*SBCC Environmental Horticulture Dept, Environmental Studies Program,
Santa Barbara City College;Nutiva; Hopedance Media and Santa Barbara
Permaculture Network.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
_List of Public Events for Geoff and Nadia Lawton and Andrew Jones in USA :
_June 18,19,20,21,22,23, Programs in Minneapolis, Minnesota with Geoff
and Nadia Lawton
Contact Guy Trombley <trom0003@umn.edu>,
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Tuesday June 27th 6-9 PM Lecture and Powerpoint with Geoff Lawton
Santa Monica Public Library, The Auditorium Donation $10-$15
1343 6th street Santa Monica, CA 90401 Phone at library 310 458 8600
www.smpl.org <http://www.smpl.org/>
The library is located on Santa Monica Blvd. at 6th street in Downtown
Santa Monica. Ample parking, entrance on 6th street.
Contact David Kahn <info@sustainablehabitats.org> 1-323-667-1330
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Fri June 30 7pm Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st Century
Lecture with Australian Geoff Lawton $15
How to change the paradigm of emergency disaster relief and development
to a model of life affirming assistance.
Fe Bland Auditorium, Business Communication Forum, Santa Barbara City
College, West Campus 721 Cliff Dr Santa Barbara, CA 93109-2394
For more info and registration Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
margie@sbpermaculture.org 805-962-2571
www.sbpermaculture.org <http://www.sbpermaculture.org/>
Sat & Sun July 1 & 2, 9-5pm Permaculture & Sustainable Aid for the 21st
Century Workshop
How to change the paradigm of emergency disaster relief and development
to a model of life affirming assistance.
With Geoff Lawton, Nadia Lawton, and Andrew Jones including Panels
discussions on Rebuilding Local Economies with Fair Trade Companies and
Local Residents who went to help in New Orleans and more
Cost $160 Two Days , $90 per day or (Payments before June 1 - $120)
Student $120
Fe Bland Auditorium, Business Communication Forum Santa Barbara City
College, West Campus 721 Cliff Dr Santa Barbara, CA 93109-2394
For more info and registration Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
margie@sbpermaculture.org 805-962-2571
www.sbpermaculture.org <http://www.sbpermaculture.org/>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
July 1 -6; Permaculture Design Course at the Portland Permaculture
Institute.
Introduction to Permaculture, Healthy Soil, Water Collection and
Greywater, Permaculture Food Production.
Geoff Lawton on July 3, 4, and 5. co teaching with Toby Hemenway, Pam
Leitch, Joe Leitch and Karen Tillou.
$50 per day includes lunch. www.portlandpermaculture.com
<http://www.portlandpermaculture.com/> pam@portlandpermaculture.com
503.293.8004
<<<<<<<<<<<
SFBG Urban Permaculture Design Certification Course July 7 - 9, July 14
- 16, Aug 11 - 13, Aug 18 - 20
July 7-9 Geoff Lawton with Kat Steele Fred Bove' and Kevin Bayuk
Saturday July 8 7:30-9:30 Geoff and Nadia Lawton, Evening SOULutionary
Programs www.soulutioneers.org/ <http://www.soulutioneers.org/>
San Francisco Botanical Garden Society Ninth Ave at Lincoln Way San
Francisco, CA 94122
(415) 661-1316, ext 354 , contact Kat Steele <kat@steelemoon.com>
<<<<<<<<<<<
July 10 10th 7:30 - 9 Lecture with Geoff Lawton Santa Rosa California
New College 99 6th Street Santa Rosa
Contact Joseph Kennedy livingearth62@hotmail.com,jkennedy@sonic.net
<<<<<<<<<

Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
(805) 962-2571
*/sbpcnet@silcom.com
/*_www.sbpermaculture.org <http://www.sbpermaculture.org/>
_*"We are like trees, we must create new leaves, in new directions, in
order to grow." - Anonymous
*

------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:12:08 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] BBC NEWS | Health | Veg 'prevents artery
hardening'
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4494E0A8.20703@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5076850.stm>

Last Updated: Sunday, 18 June 2006, 00:18 GMT 01:18 UK
Different coloured veg contain different minerals
Eating vegetables may prevent hardening of the arteries, research suggests.
US researchers found 38% less build up of fatty deposits in the arteries of mice who were fed a mixture of vegetables, including carrots and peas.
Evidence on the effects of diet on atherosclerosis in humans is not clear but eating fruit and vegetables is known to protect against heart disease.
The study in the Journal of Nutrition said the average person only eats three portions of fruit and veg a day.
The researchers from the Wake Forest University School of Medicine assessed the effect of diet on heart disease by studying mice that had been specially bred to rapidly develop atherosclerosis - the formation of fatty plaques in the arteries which can eventually block blood flow leading to heart attacks and strokes.

"While everyone knows that eating more vegetables is supposed to be good for you, no-one had shown before that it can actually inhibit the development of atherosclerosis"
Dr Michael Adams, lead researcher
Half the mice were fed a vegetable-free diet and half the mice were fed a diet which included broccoli, green beans, corn, peas and carrots.
After 16 weeks, researchers measured cholesterol content in the blood vessels and estimated that plaques in the arteries of the mice were 38% smaller.
Although there was also a reduction in total cholesterol and body weight in mice fed the vegetable-rich diet, analysis showed that this could not explain the reduction in atherosclerosis.
Lead researcher Dr Michael Adams said: "While everyone knows that eating more vegetables is supposed to be good for you, no-one had shown before that it can actually inhibit the development of atherosclerosis."
Inflammation
He added that there was a 37% reduction in serum amyloid - a marker of inflammation in mice - suggesting that vegetable consumption may inhibit inflammatory activity
"Although the pathways involved remain uncertain, the results indicate that a diet rich in green and yellow vegetables inhibits the development of hardening of the arteries and may reduce the risk of heart disease," he said.
"It is well known that atherosclerosis progression is intimately linked with inflammation in the arteries."
Dr Adrian Brady, consultant cardiologist at Glasgow Royal Infirmary, said: "It's an interesting study and it is encouraging. There is a public health message that dietary interventions are helpful.
"And now this animal model shows maybe there is long-term dietary involvement that could lead to less plaques."
He added more work was needed to look at the development of plaques and confirm the protective effect of eating fruit and veg.
Dr Charmaine Griffiths, spokesperson for the British Heart Foundation, said: "This study supports the recommendation of eating at least five portions of fruit and vegetables a day.
"Different coloured fruit and vegetables contain different vitamins and minerals, so the more types of fruit and vegetables you can include in your diet the better."

------------------------------
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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 41, Issue 23
********************************************

Have a magnificent day that is in the highest lighted good within the Christ conciousness,
Pat

Re: [permaculture] Response to Shawn, scakya, 06/18/2006