permaculture

[Bill McDorman <bm@seedsave.org>]

Torskel:

Build simple wooden cages stretched with netting fine enough to keep out
pollinating insects.  Cover your chosen daikons when they begin to flower.
Either hand pollinate the daikon flowers or introduce bees to your cages.
You can find basic seed saving instructions free online here for most
vegetables:  http://www.seedsave.org/issi/issi_904.html

bill

Bill W.  McDorman
Seeds Trust, High Altitude Gardens
PO Box 596
Cornville, AZ 86325
928.649.3315
bm@seedsave.org
http://www.seedstrust.com


on 6/13/06 5:51, Niels Corfield at mudguard@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Torskel,
> 
> See if any of this info helps.
> 
> All the best,
> Niels
> http://del.icio.us/entrailer
> http://nocompost.blogspot.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65387153@N00/
> 
> 
> 
> torskel87 wrote:
> 
>> Hello everyone
>> This is Miguel from Ecuador,I am very interested in letting my
>> plants to reseed by themselfs, and now my doughts are how to let
>> this occur naturally, because here there are not harsh winters
>> (there is not snow) and  when the plants go to seed most of it will
>> be eaten by birds,so might it be better to make seedballs.??
>> Other question is how to do to obtain daikon seeds, I sow lots of
>> Daikon in the winter, in some places I put a clover crop, in others
>> not but I had the same results, I had a really good harvest, some
>> daikons weighted more than 2 kl, I let some daikon and they went to
>> seed, but close to them there were lots of mustard, wild radish, and
>> other wild brassicas, most of the in flower and with lots bees,
>> ladybugs,, pollinating them,so I thought that it was something
>> completly natural, in this way new species will born, but I want to
>> eat daikon not a mix of everything,how would be a way to get not
>> mixed seed in a natural way .???
> 
> *"Seed Saving" and varietal purity*
> A method for saving pure seeds from the Daikon is probably to grow a few
> of them in one place, doesn't matter where but a few plants together
> with no other brassicas around them. Then you will need to net off these
> plants, and now the tricky bit. I will say at this point that I have not
> done this my self but have seen examples at The Heritage Seeds Library
> (HSL), UK and in a book from Kokkopelli.
> At the HSL they use dedicated pollinating insects which spend their
> whole lives inside small plastic tunnels, _all other insects are
> excluded_. This last point is key.
> This example however they buy insect eggs. So maybe not suitable for our
> needs.
> _HSL website:_
> http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/whos_who.php
> Another method is to hand-pollinate.
> Again you will need to net-off the radish from other brassica, though
> other plants are fine. Then at a time when the plants are in flower you
> can use a small paint brush to transfer pollen from one plant to another.
> At this point I will ask a question of the group.
> Are monoescious? By this I mean are there male and female flowers on the
> same plant? If this is the case then you can get away with transferring
> pollen from male to female flowers on _the same plant._ However I think
> it would probably better to do it from another plant. Not essential.
> Do remember _no insects can enter your net when you are hand-pollinating
> _or at any time during flowering. Net must remain _until seed is set.
> 
> 
> _Or you could just have a garden bed near the house specifically for
> seed saving, then just add these seeds to seed balls for next season.
> _
> _
> 
>> Other thing that I´ve been wondering about is how to cultivate in
>> hilly land in a natural way, I am starting my natural farm in a
>> really hilly land, so I was thinking in making terraces, but to do
>> them I will need to move a lot of soil,to make earthen banks,
>> walls,and level the ground, might it be naturally to do this ???
>> allthough I don´t see other way to controll erosion, and retain
>> humidity, somebody has experience with this.???
> 
> *Upland cultivation and Soil Erosion
> *First of all, I think that you should _not _make terraces. Again, I
> have no experience personally but it is clear they are extremely
> labour-intensive to build and will always need your attention.
> Secondly if you are sticking with Fukuoka's advice and not digging
> (tilling, cultivating or removing vegetative cover) you will not have a
> major soil "retention" issue. I use this term so that we can stay, in
> language, in the positive. We are "keeping soil"/"retaining soil" rather
> than preventing /soil erosion/.
> "doing" options include:
> -Swales:                                 ditches laid, or dug "along
> contour" (across the slope). i.e. the opposite of down slope.
> -Contour hedges:                 dense vegetation planted at regular
> intervals along contour. e.g. Vetiver grass (non-invasive, infertile,
> lots of biomass) or Sweet clover.
> -Contour planting:               trees or shrubs planted as above. Can
> be called "alley cropping".
> -Mulching/Cover crops:      the use of vigorous cover crops to produce
> mulch (e.g. _Maize-mucuna_) or be a companion to your crops.
> 
> _
> Links_
> Vetiver
> http://www.vetiver.com/TVN_greenEng.pdf (500KB download) Vetiver Hedge
> www.vetiver.com
> 
> Alleycropping 
> http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a
> &rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial_s&q=alleycropping&btnG=Search
> http://del.icio.us/entrailer/Alley-Cropping
> 
> Maize-Mucuna
> http://del.icio.us/entrailer/Maize-Mucuna
> http://www.tropag-fieldtrip.cornell.edu/Thurston_TA/pslashmulch.html
> 
> Agroforestry (Agrofloresta)
> http://www.fazendasaoluiz.com/agrofloresta.htm (Portuguese)
> *Contours: MArking and Measurement*
> It is very important to accurately survey the field to find out where
> the contours are.
> For this a number of simple tools can be constructed. They are standard
> permaculture tools: an "a-frame" is perhaps the simplest.
> It is not important where exactly your contours are measured from and
> to. Only that they _are the same height all the way along_.
> You can decide on the spacing for yourself, probably narrower than you
> might build a terrace.
> 
> Anyone know any other good resources for swales and surveying?
> Particularly from the permaculture list.
> 
> *Strips, Contours, Plants and Combining Them*
> Once you have marked your contours then you can decide what to do on
> them: swales, hedges, tree etc or combination of all of these at
> different intervals.
> It is no problem to have trees and hedge plants in the same contour
> "strip" and plant them into a swale.
> _Greening the Desert
> http://www.permaculture.org.au/_ (click on the image in the right hand
> side with the above title)
> _
> _You might have trees planted every other contour strip, so they shade
> the slope and the in-between swale/hedge.
> Like tree-hedge-tree-hedge. With each one having a swale in it as well.
> Or combinations there of.
> Perhaps put in a _small pond _every few swales, at different places
> along the length.
> 
> There are so many variables. This is where it gets really exciting.
> But starting small, you could dig just one or two swales and plant them
> with fast growing cover crops like vetiver or sweet clover and just a
> few trees, or tree seeds, along the length. Then next winter take
> cuttings from the trees and start to spread them out along the contour.
> 
> *Uses, Outputs and Produce and _Questions_*
> It would be useful to talk about what plants and seeds you have
> available and what is native in your local area.
> Upland production of trees will be for: fuel, fodder and food etc.
> And hedges will provide: mulch, fodder.
> _Climate
> _What is your regional climate?
> Average rainfall? Do you have heavy rains? Then periods of drought? How
> frequent is rainfall?
> _Vegetation_
> What is the vegetation like on these slopes?
> Are there many trees already? What kind of cover exists? Seasonally and
> perrenially.
> _Condition of Land and Previous Uses_
> Is the land degraded? Has it been used for agriculture before?
> Has there been grazing? Will you wish to graze it? If yes: then will it
> be Seasonally, in rotation or permanent? And with what animals?
> _Trees and Fertility_
> What are your native nitrogen-fixing trees and shrubs? Is there seeds
> freely available? To buy or gather?
> These trees will provide the back-bone of any long-term productivity,
> especially in an upland situation.
> Some examples are: Inga, Leucana, Wattles. But natives or local species
> are better. And hopefully more available
> _Resources_
> How many people can you count on to work on your project?
> What is the usual minimum people you work with day-to-day? What tasks
> can you do that will contribute to the "upland project" when your large
> labour-force is not available, or needed?
> For example, it will be perfectly possible to do the contour marking
> with just 2 people.
> How much seeds can you get your hands on? How long will it take to
> gather/buy? How much space do I have for storage? Do you, or a
> neighbour, have experience with handling tree seeds or cuttings?
> 
> 
> 
> *Some things to Remember*
> 
> _Mulch = (fertile) soil_
> So you can never have enough of it. But remember you have to grow it in
> the field.
> 
> _Marking Swales/Contours_
> Remember to mark your contours well. If you are not going to dig your
> swale/plant contour hedges on the same day.
> If the markers get blown away or eaten it is some time wasted.
> I will ask Geoff Lawton the question of how many and what spacing and
> placement is appropriate in the first phase.
> Though I should have thought one complete and planted-up swale half up
> the slope would be better than none.
> 
> When you reply This mail will be passed on to other internation networks
> for further advice.
> 
> All the best,
> Niels
> http://del.icio.us/entrailer
> http://nocompost.blogspot.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65387153@N00/
> 
> 
> 
>> Any advice will be helpfull
>> Thanks
>> --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "poojyum" <poojyum@...>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Steve,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for suggestions.
>>> 
>>>> If  you put your seedlings in a row, they are prone to all
>> suffering
>>>> from the same fate.
>>> 
>>> I dont put seedlings in a row. I sow seed at random - here and
>> there.
>>> 
>>>> If you put your seedlings in an area with no other
>>>> growing plants, they will be targeted by pests.  If you plant
>> just
>>>> what
>>>> you need, that's not sharing with nature.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If you put your seedlings in a mixed growing environment with
>> other
>>>> plants they are partially hidden.  If you grow many more than you
>>>> need there will be some left for you.
>>> 
>>> My plot is full of so called 'weeds'. There was 1 area where I had
>> dug
>>> due to pressure from a fellow plot holder. I regret doing that. And
>>> that area doesnt have too many plants. Unfortunately in that area
>> my
>>> seedlings are thriving!
>>> 
>>> I'm not planting only what I need. I dont even count how many
>> seeds I
>>> sow. I sow a lot. For example I sowed probably 50 broadbeans seeds
>>> here and there. Of them about 10 have come up and 3 are standing
>>> today. The 3 are eaten up here and there. I am happy for the 3 yes
>> but
>>> it seems they are there only because they have not been found by
>> the
>>> 'pests' yet!
>>> 
>>>> If you plant from seedballs they will
>>>> be protected until they get started.
>>> 
>>> With seedballs I have had very poor result. Probably its not the
>> right
>>> clay I dont know. I picked up clay from a molehill along the
>> tracks I
>>> cycle thru. It seemed soft, natural & local. I had 1 spinach, a
>> couple
>>> lettuce from seedballs.
>>> 
>>>> If you plant into a standing crop
>>>> and cut the crop after yours gets started they will take off
>> from the
>>>> increase in light and space.  If you put the litter from that
>> cut crop
>>>> back over your plants as mulch they will be additionally
>> protected.
>>> 
>>> When I sow a seed, I cut back on the grasses/'weeds' a bit & sow.
>> If I
>>> was transplanting a seedling, I cut back and as you suggest put it
>>> back as mulch to hide them and to save some moisture.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The trick is to plant the right plants at the right time
>> following the
>>>> right crop and cutting the overgrowth at the right time.  Don't
>> expect
>>>> success every time and be prepared to have little success at
>> first and
>>>> more as you figure out what works for you.  OK, this is hard
>> when you
>>>> have to wait a year between experiments and you are hoping to
>> eat your
>>>> plants after all that work.
>>>> 
>>>> Fukuoka had a kitchen garden as well as the farming fields.  I
>> suspect
>>>> he had the same problems.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> Thank you for writing. I will keep experimenting.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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              __o
            _'\<,_
___________(_)/ (_)_______________
Bill W.  McDorman
Seeds Trust, High Altitude Gardens
PO Box 596
Cornville, AZ 86325
928.649.3315
bm@seedsave.org
http://www.seedstrust.com