permaculture

[Robyn Francis <erda@nor.com.au>]

I've been following this discussion - (and Michael, this is a response, not
a reaction) - and consider both side have valid points.

The PDC is The Permaculture Design Course - represents a common
international standard for permaculturists in all countries and climates.
Anyone from any place on earth who has a Certificate of Completion for a PDC
has a common basis in terms of understanding permaculture principles and the
breadth of applications. When we call something a PDC it should be in
accordance with these internationally recognised ground rules.

I've facilitated over 90 PDC's since 1985 and when I teach PDC's I adhere to
the agreed curriculum and conduct the courses in more than the minimum 72
hours (the extra hours I include are for practical, excursions and touching
on areas beyond the Designer's Manual). I see the PDC having an on-going
role in permaculture and provided teachers keep themselves up-to-date with
planetary and local trends & information, the course will never be 'dated'.
In this respect I disagree with Michael.

However, the PDC, while it plays a vital role as an in-depth intensive
introduction to Pc, has it's inherent limits. There's both scope and need
for other kinds of permaculture training and this is where Michael is on the
right track. I have been developing and delivering specialist courses for
the past 15 years (Native plants & foods in Pc design, Design for Human
Settlements, Pc for Third World & Indigenous Peoples etc) Michele & Jude
Fanton have developed their Seed Saving programs. There are others who've
developed all kinds of specialist training on various elements, aspects and
applications of pc philosophy and sustainability principles, and topics
inspired by pc including eco-spirituality, eco-nomics, community glue &
mediation. BUT none of these presents itself as a 'PDC'. (though some
courses may require participants to have already completed a PDC as a
pre-requisite)

Here in Australia we've been discussing the pro's, con's and limitations of
the PDC for around 10 years. There's a danger of the PDC becoming an
educational monoculture and many of saw the need for a diversity of courses
and training to meet the diverse needs of participants and society
generally. One outcome of this discussion has been the recent accreditation
of permaculture training with the National Accreditation Authority of
Certificates 1-4 and a Diploma of Permaculture. This new training is in
early stages of getting off the ground, and there's much more I could write
about it but time precludes and this response is already long enough.

In short, I think the PDC curriculum parameters & minimum delivery
time-frame should be honoured by all, and those of us who see additional
training needs should develop training to meet those needs, but give it
another name: Permaculture for Eco-enterprise, Permaculture Principles and
Spirituality etc etc etc. It all boils down to what we call things, a spade
is a spade, and to sell a crowbar as a spade is ultimately misleading.

Robyn Francis





On 4/3/05 5:53 PM, "Michael Kramer" <MKramer@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> Since I am not surprised at all by the reaction I'm getting to suggestions
> for change, I'm going to take this conversation to another level. All
> natural systems evolve, and the way they do this is through succession,
> waste recycling, resource accumulation, etc. These concepts can be pointed
> out without needing to spend hours on the water cycle or the functions of
> trees. Energy exchange and addressing entropy can be covered using countless
> examples in the invisible structures realm, all while basing the analysis on
> the way nature works. What's really interesting is that other movements have
> found a way to do this while we are left in the dust, and they are having a
> serious impact. The Ecopsychology, Ecological Design, Natural Capitalism,
> and Natural Steps folks came well after us and have managed to really get
> their message out there in a great way, tackle significant projects, and
> generate credibility. We have not.
> 
> So the Basic Permaculture Design Course should evolve, for despite its good
> qualities, it is obsolete. It's too focused on how nature works and not on
> applications of the principles of natural systems. The designs students
> typically create are primitive and reflect only rudimentary understanding of
> the relationships between elements in a system, and this is because most of
> the course is spent lecturing in one ear and out the other on techniques in
> one dimension rather than on the qualities of superior relationships. Let me
> be moe clear about this. Many (could one say most?) permaculture
> certification course graduates DO NOT UNDERSTAND PERMACULTURE DESIGN. This
> is a direct reflection of the quality of our design courses, and it is
> important that the experienced teachers among us take this to heart even
> though it is difficult to hear. We must place ego aside - this work isn't
> about us an individual personalities trying to hash out some sort of bizarre
> pecking order or pay homage to what Bill originated. We are failing as a
> movement, in this country anyway, and it is our own (un)doing. And one
> reason I think this way is because I facilitate teacher trainings and see
> what the students know. It is not a measure of success if students leave a
> design course and write nice evaluations of the course and go on their merry
> way; it's the retention and future application of what they have learned
> that matters, and without such feedback, most of the permaculture teachers
> in this country have no idea what those they teach do with this information.
> Without this feedback loop, we think "it ain't broke", but people have
> insufficient information to draw such a conclusion and believe that as long
> as students keep signing up for design courses they must be ok. But I'm
> seeing what people know and what we're doing isn't that effective. And
> there's nothing wrong with my saying so, folks; it's ok for me to think this
> and to want to do something about it. And I'd like to point out that many
> students feel the same way, but they don't bring it up out of respect for
> the teachers; and so, things remain the same.
> 
> We desperately need modified versions of the certification course. I could
> teach an entire certification course on the design of human interpersonal
> relationships based on the principles of permaculture and its approaches to
> design - and I wouldn't need to teach about water, trees, or climate to do
> so. For one doesn't need to cover these topics in such detail to get at the
> principles of energy storage and cycling. I really would like people to use
> their peripheral consciousness here to imagine the possibilities for the
> application of our work. We are stuck in a one-dimensional approach to both
> the content and process of teaching a design philosophy that is holistic in
> nature.  Bill could get away with talking at people for 72 hours, I suppose,
> because of his dynamism, but lets not fool that with good pedagogy. The way
> the design course is taught needs to evolve. The people who are teaching it
> (myself included) need to mulch ourselves and allow for the natural process
> of succession to replace the pioneer species with more collaborative
> students with fresh approaches to teaching. Many of our students are urban
> activists who want to take permaculture to a political and economic level,
> and believe me, our certification course doesn't address this well. But
> perhaps more importantly, people who are applying the principles of natural
> systems to the design of permaculture educational experiences have gone on
> to facilitate unbelievable educational programs far better than things I or
> most of the pioneer teachers have done. And we should be so thankful for
> this succession rather than resist based on our need for control or respect.
> And we should also recognize that there are indeed permaculture design
> courses out there which are not anywhere near the format or content of what
> we experienced teachers think - this is a reality, and we must be aware of
> it.
> 
> So, even though I am tired of the critiques, I am hanging on to the notion
> that there are more of us out there who want to be self-reflective and take
> permaculture to the next level. When people within our movement discredit
> efforts to broaden and deepen our collective understanding of permaculture,
> we miss an opportunity to evaluate and redesign our system, and that is my
> higher calling, friends.
> 
> Michael Kramer
> 
> 
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